Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356

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Howard Farran:

And it's just a huge, huge, huge, unbelievable honor to have one of my earliest role models and mentors, Paul Homoly.

Paul Homoly:

Alright, Howard.

Howard Farran:

Come over to my house.

Here's the story on this guy. I graduated in 87, it was, wouldn't be too long after that. So, I've got to tell you the long story. This is so funny. So, I knew all the happy successfully quality dentists, I figured out within a year or two. They all had this FAGD MAG ... So I met a couple of them, and they said, "You know what? You sign up for the AGD, you'll be hanging out with the people going for it." And you're a summary of your five best friends. So, I signed up for the FAGD and hated it, because I, eventually got my FAGD, but I hate it because I wanted to just take all my courses in fillings and crown bridges. But to get my FAGD, I had to study ortho, and implants, and I'm like, "But I don't want to do implants."

Paul Homoly:

Yeah. I had to do the same thing. The lowest score I got on my fellowship AGD was practice management. That was my lowest score. I thought, "I'm in trouble now."

Howard Farran:

And I thought, "I've got to take all these hours, and that." So, I looked around and everybody was saying, Carl Misch, Carl Misch, and I looked at Carl Misch [inaudible 00:01:20] It was seven three day weekends in Pittsburgh, and the only thing I liked about it was, I could finish all of my requirements.

Paul Homoly:

All in one spot.

Howard Farran:

So, all I had to do was waste seven weekends in a row and go down there. So, I go down there, and Carl, nobody has ever spoke more highly of you, or anybody I know more than Carl Misch did of you, and the reason, Paul was amazing, is not only is he an amazing dentist, an amazing implantologist, but what Carl just couldn't believe, and why everyone was taking notes on this guy. You were the first guy that could sell full mouth rehabs, of all the [inaudible 00:02:01] in North Carolina, which at that time wasn't really-

Paul Homoly:

It still isn't.

Howard Farran:

It wasn't really Sebastian Florida, or Beverly Hills, and you would show your cases, and Carl would talk about your cases, and everybody would just sit there and say, "Where are you getting these cases?"

Paul Homoly:

I get that all the time. [crosstalk 00:02:17]

Howard Farran:

And you were getting them from just regular Joe Blow Americans, and I listened to your speech. I think it was 87. I think it probably about 1990. I eventually got my FAGD, MAGD, my fellowship [inaudible 00:02:32], but it's funny because I got my diploma in the international [inaudible 00:02:33], before they had 3D X-rays. I don't know if that is still good.

Paul Homoly:

The old 2D X-ray creates some anxiety in replacing implants.

Howard Farran:

Oh my god. We used to think we had so much to work with on that [Pano 00:02:46], and then you'd flabber back, and, oh my god.

Paul Homoly:

When I was teaching at the Misch institute, funny, Carl and I were buddies very early Carl had maybe a two or three year headstart on me in implant dentistry, and Carl and I would end up at the same programs together, speaking at the same programs. I didn't really know him, we were kind of young bucks. He'd speak, and I'd speak, and we kind of knew each other, but you know there was that competitive edge. So, one time we were in Birmingham Alabama, and this was at the Alabama Implant Study Club. This was maybe the third or fourth time I spoke there, and they had those booths where they would sell those cassette tapes from the speaker.

So, I'm like, I'm going to walk into the exhibit halls, and who's standing over there by the booth looking at the tapes? It's Carl Misch, so I walked up to him and he looks at me. He says, "I'm just making sure that I'm selling more tapes than you are." We had a good laugh, when we went out to dinner. We had a couple glasses of whine, and what was interesting, is that back then Carl looked at me he says, "You know what?" He said, "We need to be allies, we need to be advocates in the market place. We're in a profession that's emerging. It's disruptive there's a lot of people that are not going to like what we're doing, and we need to support each other, and that started the friendship, right there.

Then for the next probably 10 years. I taught at the Misch implant institute. Here's the story behind it. Here's how it started. Carl was teaching these one off courses. He flew me up to Michigan. I'm working with him. Back then I was teaching prosthetics and surgery, and we're sitting in Carl's kitchen. I'm sitting in on the kitchen counter, having a glass of whine. He says, "You know I'm thinking about starting an institute. What should I call it."

I said, "Carl, why don't you call it the Misch.-"

"No, no. I can't name it after me, it would be too egotistical."

I said, "No Carl, you've got to call it the Misch Institute."

So, Carl, Carl's brother Craig, Craig is down in Florida right now. Craig is amazing. A few other faculty members [Jay Croffer 00:04:40], a few other guys, me, were really the core faculty there. Carl would put these courses on in his office, and I tell you people would come from literally all over the world, and his office was in Dearborn Michigan, and it was a big office, but it wasn't a Peter Dawson kind of palace. It was just a regular dental office, with a bunch of hand pieces and a bunch of chairs.

And these people would come in, and Carl would bring these patients in, and we're banging in implants and people are taking notes and raising their hands. It was like the wild west. It was incredible. I did that for 10 years with Carl, and what was interesting about Carl. I remember sitting down and talking with him one time, and if you knew Carl, Carl had this photographic memory about [inaudible 00:05:17] Modulus elasticity, and what makes this happen, and all this stuff. He was a genius. He has brains in places were I don't even have places.

And we got half drunk one night. All the great conversations occur after a couple glasses of whine. I said, "Carl, how do you study? How do you learn all this stuff? How do you keep it here?" He goes, "I don't know. I just study." I said, "No, no, no. Let's break it down. Give me a process. Let's say you've got an article on bone grafting. How would you do it?" He says, "Well, I would read, and I would stop if there was something that I didn't fully understand."

I said, "Okay."

He said, "But I would only read in short increments." Said, "I only read for short periods at a time. Then I would stop and walk around the room, take a drink, come back, and read the article."

I said, "Now, when you're done with your article, how would you file it? Would you file it by topic, or by author? How do you store it?"

He looked at me and he said, "Well, Paul if you studied the article. Why would you need to save it?"

And that's when I saw Carl's train pull away from mine. He had this intellect. I heard him do presentations on bone grafting. See back then the whole thing was Gore-Tex, remember that? "Oh, Gore-Tex is going to solve all the paradental [inaudible 00:06:33] in the world. So, Carl was kind of bringing the real stuff to it. Here's the goods, here's the bad, that kind of thing. He got done with a lecture on using Gore-Tex, and memorless bone grafts, and owl grafts, and all that. It was pretty heavy stuff.

And he got all done with it, so Carl and I are sitting around. We're kind of debriefing, and I said, "Carl, that lecture was really, really well put together." Because I look at things from an instructional design point of view, step 1, step 2, step 3 type of thing. I said, "That lecture was really good."

I said "What's the key to it Carl, how do you do that." He said, "I'm very careful about only teaching what I think my students can do. I don't teach everything that I do."

And what I really liked about that, is that he respected the comfort zone of the audiences. He wasn't teaching something that only he could do, for his ego. That wasn't Carl. What Carl was, Carl's person mission, was also the mission of the Misch Institute, was to set and elevate the standard of implant dentistry, worldwide. He said that when I was sitting on the kitchen counter.

And you know what? He did it.

Well, you know the rest of the story. About two years ago I get a call, Carl's got brain cancer. I'm thinking, "Wow, of all the people that shouldn't have that, it would be Carl." So, I was talking to Carl. I called him, I said, "Carl." And he already had the surgery, and he had a one year prognosis, and it was not great. I went down there and I spent my last day with Carl Misch. We went out to dinner and we talked about old times, just like we are now.

And even talking about it, I feel it, because how many real, true mentors do you have in your life? I can think of three, actually four. First one, was a guy named Herold Robbins, general practitioner down in Port Charlotte Florida. I placed my first implants in his practice. This goes back to 1978, first implant, ring-less frame implant. Patients name was Bob Heimer. Incidentally, he called me a month ago. His implant has been placed what, 41 years? Herold Robbins was my first mentor. He took me by the hand. I'm just a kid, I'm what, 28? I go down there to Florida and they flew my patients down. I'm all excited, and he puts the IV in the arm, they're kind of out, right? And we bang in this ring-less frame implant.

And he and I had terrific mentor mentee relationship. He was about 25 years older than me, and he saw fire in my belly, and I shut my mouth and I listened, and I did just what he said to do. That was my first mentor. My second mentor is [Jim Pride 00:09:17] from the Pride Institute. See, I retired from clinical practice in 1995, 20 years. I've had well, lets see. I've had six or seven I surgeries, this right eye crapped out on me, and I lost my depth perception.

So I left clinical practice, not because I wanted to. It was because I had to. Right after leaving practice, well you know this. I had two kids in college. I had two homes, a bunch of mortgages and stuff like that. Plus I had a preexisting condition Howard, with the crossed eye, and so I had no disability insurance I had to pay, so I needed to eat. You know how that is.

So, I was doing these programs. I was doing a program called, speak like a leader, and when I was doing that, a lot of people would approach me, they'd say, "Homoly you're so, you tell stories in front of the room, and you're fun, and funny. How do you do that?" I said, "I don't know. I just do it." They said, "Well can you teach me how to do that?" I said, "Alright, well here's an opportunity."

So, I started to ... and [Joe Blaze 00:10:11] went through that program. A lot of the early pioneers went through that program. Well, a woman named, [Mary Allwan 00:10:23] Mary Allwan was one of Jim Pride's top consultants. Well, she took the program, two or three days later ... And I knew of Jim Pride, but I never talked to him. I see him on the stage, but you know how it is. Everybody goes up there, and I'm coming down, you know. I give him his space.

Two or three days later, I get a phone call. "Hello, Paul Homoly. This is Jim Pride." And well he said, "I don't know who in the hell you are, but Mary Allwan thinks you're pretty good, and I'd like you to." And he invites me to go to the Pride Institute, which is just across the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco.

So, a couple weeks later. I fly up there. You'll like this story. I fly up there, and I've got my three piece, gray suit, you know. Carl Misch always dressed really dapper, so I had to dress really dapper too. So, I go to the Pride Institute. I sit in the big waiting room, and it's got all of the awards from the Scandinavian Dental Association, and Dental Economics, and all of these awards that Jim Pride had. It was like being in a race car driver's trophy room. It was just overwhelming.

So, I'm sitting there. I'm flipping through a copy of Dental Economics, and I look down the hall, and here he comes. He just had a hip replaced, so he was walking with a little bit of a gait. He comes up to me and does this ... Jim Pride. It was like meeting the statue of liberty. I thought, how good is that.

We go in his office. His desk was as wide as this room. I'm kind of sitting behind the desk. He's sitting like 10 feet from me, it's a big desk. He owned Pride Mountain Vineyards. He had these big Magnums all over the room. First thing he says to me, turns around in his char, picks up one of these magnums, he said, "See this? This is Pride Special Reserve." Or something, I don't know anything about whine, he says, "This is Pride Special Reserve. You know why the white house wanted this whine? Because they wanted the president of France to taste the good whine." That's how our conversation started.

I thought, "Holy smokes, I am [Natt Mckansis 00:12:35] now. This is the real deal." We talked for about 10 minutes, He says, "Come on, I'll show you the whine room." We go out, I've got the tree piece suit on Howard. He's got this old beater suburban. We jump in, we drive two hours up to his winery. He's like, "Come on I want to show you something." So, we're walking around the winery, and the slopes. There's not a flat spot out there. More rock than ... We had the best conversation, about dentists and what they need to do to lead their practice, and who are our friends, and who are our enemies, and at the end of that conversation he invited me to become part of the Pride institute. Not as a consultant, but as a collaborator, and for the next three years, Jim Pride, and I kind of hopped around the country together. It was an amazing experience.

Then one day, I get the call. "Homoly, I got bladder cancer. A couple years." ... and then six, eight months later he was gone. That kind of thing. It was tough. My third mentor, Carl Misch. We already talked about Carl. Carl could think past problems, relative to implant placement, prostetic reconstruction. He created the nomenclature for bone density implant prosthetics. How difficult would it be to practice dentistry, if we didn't have a GB black nomenclature, or Angle classifications, or Kennedy classifications. So, when you have the nomenclature, now you can communicate in short hand. Carl did that, and oh what a contribution.

My fourth mentor, Brandon Dawson. Brandon Dawson is the CEO of a group named Stratus Dental Group, and what Stratus Dental Group is, is a very innovative company that supports dental service organizations. They don't run dental practice. They don't have a dental practice. It's not like they have a bunch of dental practices. What they do is they consult with DSOs, and their mission is to make the DSO community even stronger, making it better for patients, and providers, and professional.

He approached me. Brandon approached me, about three years ago, and gave me the vision. He said, "This is what we're trying to do." Brandon had innovated the [audiology 00:15:01] market. He aggregated audiology practices, and created an enormous organization, an enormous database on the doctor patient relationships, and he showed me some of his stuff, and it was breath taking. I looked at it and said, "I've never seen anything like this."

And so, for the last two years, actually last two and a half years, I've been working with Stratus Dental Group. They have asked me to contribute to their case acceptance program. They have an outstanding content development team, and you know what's interesting? When you work with large organizations. When you work with professional organizations, business organizations, they bring a different energy and a different momentum to the practice of dentistry. Understand that right now the DSO, the Dental Service Organization, that's probably the hottest topic out there right now. Would you agree with that?

Howard Farran:

Oh, absolutely.

Paul Homoly:

Back in 2011, I get the call from Western Dental. I don't know if you know anything about Western Dental?

Howard Farran:

Yeah, the founder just died a few years ago.

Paul Homoly:

Is that right?

Howard Farran:

Yeah after, I think he had a ... Yeah.

Paul Homoly:

So, Western Dental calls me, and says, "Hey. We want you to come out, and see what you can do for us."

What was it, [Growanbom 00:16:32] I forget his first name. He was and attorney that was the CEO, okay? Growanbom, he was like a ... If he was a machine, he would be a bulldozer. "Hey!" That kind of guy. "Come on out, and show us what you can do."

So I went out there, and I don't know if you know much about Western, but just a very modest care, 50% of the patients are Hispanic speaking only. The majority of the dentists at the time were foreign born. Culturally very difficult, okay? And you know what, I thought, "Come on, I taught at the Misch institute ... I spoke with Peter Dawson, and John Koise, and all the big dogs. I know how to use a semi adjustable articulator, and I understand occlusion, right?" Western dental, I thought, "Oh man, I don't know."

But I went out there, and what was interesting, is I spent a couple of days there, and it wasn't the dentist, and it wasn't the CEO that compelled me to accept the job assignment. It was looking at the patients in the waiting room. You see the waiting rooms held maybe 40 people. Howard, there'd be 60 people sitting in there, and another 15 or so outside smoking cigarettes. Okay? Not pretty.

But, when I looked at the kids, and most of the patients were kids, and I looked at those kids, and I realized that if I had been borne in Los Angeles, I would have been one of those kids. My dad was a carpenter with an 8th grade education. My mom worked at Mario's Hamburgers, right? I remember going in to Dr.[Malkey 00:18:08], that was our Dentist's name, right? And he had those old, pedals, and the belt, right? I would have been one of those patients.

So, I thought why should. What I know about the doctor patient relationship. What do I know about creating [inaudible 00:18:22]? Why should what I know about creating great patient experiences only be a special for doctors with FAGD degrees? Why not try it here? Well, I did. It was a great experience. Took me about two and a half years to do it. I worked with their content development team. We put these processes together. We made videos, train new trainer programs.

And I came out of there going, "Wow, what an experience." Right after that Pacific Dental Services contacted me, [Steve Thorn 00:18:51]. Completely different organization, Steve has got a heart of gold. His dentists are compelled. I've met so many good people there, and you know, the DSOs ... You know what the gossip about the DSOs is? Well if you're a DSO dentist, you're a rotten dentist. You don't know what the hell you're doing. I would make a bet. If you take all the bad dentists in the world, the majority of the bad dentists aren't DSOs, they're out there, and it just so happens that DSO is new, it's disruptive technology, but you know what? I'll name some other disruptive technology, implant dentistry. What was that field like when it first started?

Believe me I've got a lot of arrows in my back, right? I was not loved for doing that. Cosmetic dentistry, you remember that? They called cosmetic dentists, [bondologists 00:19:43] They were ... [Ross Nash 00:19:47], a good buddy of mine, in Charlotte.

Howard Farran:

I love Ross Nash.

Paul Homoly:

You love Ross, right?

Howard Farran:

Aren't all the greatest dentists bald? Ross Nash, [Peter Dawson 00:19:52].

Paul Homoly:

They're all ...

Howard Farran:

All the great ones are bald

Paul Homoly:

All the great ones.

Implant dentistry, at one time, disruptive. "You shouldn't be doing it. It's bad for dentistry."

Cosmetic dentistry, "You shouldn't be doing it. It's bad for dentistry."

Dental advertising, "You shouldn't be doing it. It's bad for dentistry."

DSOs, "You shouldn't be doing it. It's bad for dentistry."

Dentistry has a natural aversion to disruptiveness, but you know what? You take those four now ... You take the first three, implants, cosmetics, and marketing, every high end clinical guru is involved, in some level with that. It is mainstream. It takes a decade, Howard for dentists to get over disruptiveness.

So when I look at the DSO market. When I looked at the DSO market, I thought "Wow, this is disruptive. This is new."

So when Steve Thorn asked me to join the Organization. Again, join meaning, as a consultant, and I helped co author their case acceptance stuff, and again. I've worked with great people. I don't want to take credit for their success on that. I was a player, but I brought my spin on how dentists can make it immediately and overwhelmingly obvious, that they're in the right dental practice. How do you do that? How do you take that, and make it work in a culture where there's high patient flow, young practitioners, right? There's some cultural stuff there.

Well, I spent two, two and a half years at Pacific doing that, plus in the past and now, I lead their speaker development program. I work with internal team members. I work with external team members, teaching them how to go to mainstream dental meetings, and talk about what they do as dentists within a dental service organization. They testify in front of state boards. They go to large conferences, and I'm partially responsible for that.

Well, my next lily pad that I hopped to was Stratus Dental with Brandon Dawson. I think Brandon Dawson is, if he was a dentist, he'd be like Carl Misch, to tell you the truth. He's so far first, that sometimes ... Well, you know how it is. He's disruptive, in the sense that, he's innovative, and what he's bringing to the DSO market, I think will be good for it. It's just a matter of time before they recognize it, and I've loved working there, and we're two and a half years into it.

Most of my time has been spent with the content development team. Working with a process they call, patients for life. It's a process that he perfected over the last 14 years in the audiology market.

Howard Farran:

Do you know what the first DSO was, in dentistry?

Paul Homoly:

Yeah it was [Sears 00:22:41], it was that Sears clinic.

Howard Farran:

No.

Paul Homoly:

Well what was it then?

Howard Farran:

100 years ago, they started Affordable Dentures, and they have 100 locations.

My first and only turn off to dentistry, was when I got out. I was taking all these courses, so many of the high ends, they would start the presentation, they say, "Oh, you have your A patients, and your B patients."

Paul Homoly:

And your C, and your D.

Howard Farran:

And your C, and your D.

And when they'd start describing a C or a D. I'm like, "That's the whole Farran family tree going back to Ireland." And they would say, "You don't want to deal with these types of people." And then-

Paul Homoly:

Get the C's out of your practice, and make room for the A's, and B's.

Howard Farran:

I know, and I'm like, "That C, is my mom, dad, five sisters, every uncle ..." I mean we were the high class ones in Wichita. The low class ones were back in Parsons, Kansas.

And then, the reason Affordable Dentures could expand so well is because dentistry never wanted to treat the poor, so Affordable started going to all the poor areas. Then western dental, that's probably the second oldest one. Same thing, they went out in California, and they said, all these dentists want to live in Beverly Hills, or maybe the middle class. And western said, "What, no one is going to treat these poor Hispanics from [inaudible 00:23:56] CNA, or San Fran?

And now, the smartest DSO, in my opinion ... I mean I love ... and by the way, if anyone says that DSOs are bad, [Rick Workman 00:24:05] has got to be one of the most quality guys ever. Steve Thorn, did you see his 100 wells on video?

Paul Homoly:

Oh, yeah. The whole fresh water thing.

Howard Farran:

I mean, he went to Ethiopia with his ... Money, and dug 100 wells, and you should see that video. These are people that probably don't know the moon goes around the earth. I mean, unbelievable.

Again, [Aspen 00:24:32]. Where's [Fontana 00:24:32] going? Where all the poor people live, and there's more money in McDonald's than there is [Ruth's Chris 00:24:37], and you go to all the high end lecturers like [Nordstrums 00:24:38]. None of my homies go to Nordstrums, my homies all go ... I mean my family tree doesn't go to a restaurant, unless there's pictures of the food on the menu. We're talking Waffle House, or IHOP and ...

Paul Homoly:

I like Waffle House. I motorcycled for years. I'd eat at Waffle House.

Howard Farran:

And now I'm a successful dentist, and I know, If there's no pictures of food on the menu, it's going to be really expensive, and not taste as good as the IHOP.

Paul Homoly:

You know Howard, that's the seduction. You see here's the big seduction in dentistry. See if you can identify with this. You graduate dental school. You've got this vision. You end up taking a course, and you end up in an institute, and there's a lot of great institutes, right? This is not a negative remark about institutes, or anything. So, you get the vision of, "Wow, I want to be a complete care dentist." And what happens is you get seduced into believing that you should be treating dental diseases of the rich. That people come in, and they're going to lay down, and play dead for you, and you're going to be able to do all this dentistry, and what you don't want, you don't want the blue collar guy; you don't want that. You want high end, high end, high end, kind of a thing.

It's that pseudo elitism that's kind of a tacit message, at times.

Howard Farran:

All my idols, not only hang out with the poor, they treat the poor, and they can even make money on the poor. South West Airlines, Ikea, Walmart. If you only want to hang out with the rich, something's wrong with you. You should be able to sit on a park bench and be able to talk to the president of the United States, and a homeless man in the same way.

Paul Homoly:

So, for the last several years, I've been, really the core of my business has been helping develop the dentist within, the DSO market. The second piece that I've been doing, is I lead key opinion leader trainer programs. What does that mean? You know when you go to these conferences, and some guys at the front of the room talking about CEREC, or talking about some 3D imaging thing, or talking about some restorative material.

Companies that make these things have their champions, typically they're their best customers, and these best customers, most often they're in their mid to late 40s or early 50s. They've made it good in dentistry, but they're really seeking more self actualization. They would like to become leaders. They want to know what they know, in a good way.

And so I'm hired by manufacturers to train the folks to go out and be a product advocate. Not a sales person, but a product advocate. How do you put a talk together? How do you do that, and how do you do it such that audience members will actually listen? How do you get away from the endless clickidy clickidy clickidy of the slides? And the funny thing is, this key opinion leader program, it all started years ago. A guy named Bill Wathen, Bill Wathen is a former editor of ADA journal. Bill was head of the continuing at Baylor University, and me and [Hill Taydem 00:27:39], and Mark Davis, we're teaching implant programs down there.

So, we're coming in there, and we're teaching these programs, and there's a bunch of people in the room, bunch of dentists in the room, Bill Wathen is ... And I didn't know Bill. I had no idea who Bill was. So, it was my turn to speak, so I get up there. You know that old poem Casey at the Bat? It's an old poem. About Casey is the big slugger. It's written in iambic pentameter, grade kids learn it. And the whole idea was, Casey is at the bat. It's the bottom of the ninth. The bases are full. He can win the game, and what happens? He strikes out.

Well I took the words to Casey at the Bat and I replaced it with implant language, and my program was called, Taking the Dent Out of Dentistry. It is how to manage complications and failures in implant dentistry. And what I did was, every time ... It's really hard to pick up a camera when one of your cases sits in a char, and the patient goes, "Is this supposed to come out?" And there's an implant [inaudible 00:28:35] buttons sheared off. It's really hard to pick up a camera at that moment, but did, and so I started taking pictures of all my complications and failures, and I showed them.

Well, Bill Wathen, between the poem, and the failures. He said, "Homoly." He says, "Would you teach our." I says, "I don't teach speaking, I'm a Dentist." He said, "Nah, you can do it."

So, we put a program together. He called it, Teach the Teachers, and he paid me like $500 bucks. I flew down to Baylor, and we had four guys in the room. They were faculty members, and you know what? I found that I loved doing it. I loved doing it. And so, over the years, I joined the National Speakers Association. I've been a member of the National Speakers Association, and they're headquartered here.

Howard Farran:

Right, and [Naomi Roads 00:29:19] [crosstalk 00:29:18] our practice, and she was the president one time.

Paul Homoly:

She was the president, absolutely.

So, I was a member of the National Speakers Association, and went up through the ranks, and I had the highest earned designation in professional speaking, called certified speaking professional, and I was the first dentist in the world to get it.

So what's happened with my career is that Ormco, Nobel Biocare, Sirona, Dentsply, Ivoclar, I work with market leaders to train their key opinion leaders. How do you put a program together? How do you keep your audiences interested? Howard, how many times do you sit in a lecture hall, and you're listening to, there's some guy show the slides, and after the fourth slide, you just drift off because they're not ... They're boring. Their narrating the slides. Their not performing, they're narrating. And, what I teach is how to be an interesting expert.

Well, I ended up writing a book on it. It's called, Just Because You're an Expert, Doesn't Make You interesting, and I love the work, so being a key opinion leader trainer, has allowed me to interface with great companies, and great dentists, and it's been really fulfilling for me.

The third piece, as far as what I'm up to now. My relationship with Stratus is strong. My relationship with the key opinion leader piece, is strong. Here's my third piece, I want to go back to basics. I want to go back to mentoring. See, one of the things I loved about the Misch Institute, is that this dentist would show up and he'd have his patient. He'd have three or four of his assistants there, and they'd put the patient in a char, and I would be the mentor. I would sit there and watch this guy, his hand shaking cutting the bones, like that. And I'd spend four or five hours with this person preoperatively looking at X-rays, and the models, then going in to the room with him, coaching him, keeping him safe, so he doesn't ... You know, make a big mistake. Let him make the little ones, not the big ones, right? And then do the post op with him, and then get on the phone with him. I really enjoyed that one on one.

Well, you know I've gotten away from that. Working in the corporate world, and working with the DSOs. So, what I'm going to do here in the Phoenix area, and I hope you can help me with this, is I want to start, maybe just a handful of mastermind groups, and get back to, the dentist, who really wants to provide quality care. I'm not talking about seeing 100 new patients a month. I'm talking about the dentist who is invested in their continuing education, who is knowledgeable about occlusion, dental materials, restorative dentistry, implant dentistry, and they want to do comprehensive care, but, they're stuck.

They're stuck because they're using some behavioral models that don't really work with that type of patient. They're relying on some old thinking that really doesn't work with the comprehensive care patient. I want to get back to that. One of the reasons I want to get back to this, I used to do that, but you see now. For me, I'm 20 years downstream from this guy that needs to know it. So, I've got all this accrued wisdom, but what I want to do, is say, "I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to become a student again. I'm want to learn how the millennials think." You know when you and I were coming up, how did we learn? We sat in a classroom, and we're looking at slides, and we're taking notes. The millennials now, they're learning looking at a screen.

Howard Farran:

Oh I know, more people get on dental town from an iPhone than from a PC.

Paul Homoly:

They're looking at a screen, and I'm not saying that's wrong. I think that's great I'm going to be involved. I spent all day yesterday in the studio.

Howard Farran:

I already have more views on this podcast than our online CE courses. I mean, they're different, and you know what. The first woman that talked to me. She said, "Look at that, your dumb big screen tv." She says, "Put your iPhone out there, and pull it in until you can't see your tv." And that's like right here. She said, "I'd rather lay in bed and prop this up on a pillow, and this has more pixels per square inch than your tv. I'll sit in a hammock with a Heineken and learn how to place implants."

Paul Homoly:

Well, and I love it, but that's not a substitute for a one on one, and I'm not saying I want to do one on ones. What I would like to do is small groups. There's a good contagious energy when you put four or five dentists, who are aligned, in a room, and you get the conversation going. And to tell you the truth. I've reached a point in my life to where, contribution is becoming very important to me. It's like my first 20 as a dentist was about consumption. You know, buying cars and houses, and getting through marriages, and all that stuff. You've got some experience there.

Howard Farran:

Yeah, that cost more than dental school.

Paul Homoly:

But now what I'm looking at is a sense of contribution. How can I contribute to this new generation? To give them a sense of what real mentorship is like, and that's what I'm going to do here.

Howard Farran:

So, I graduated $87,000 in student loans, and to get a divorce cost 43 times that amount.

Paul Homoly:

Yikes.

Howard Farran:

So, all you kids out there saying, "I got $350,000 in student loans." You wait, someday you'll give your ...

Paul Homoly:

Was it worth it?

Howard Farran:

It actually was, because I got [inaudible 00:34:53]

Paul Homoly:

So you got your moneys worth.

Howard Farran:

No I didn't, I met my ex when I was 14. Think I married at 24. Got four amazing boys, but you know what? Sometimes when you meet someone at 14, you're different 30 years later.

Paul Homoly:

Oh, absolutely. That happened with my wife and I. My first wife, Patty. We dated in high school. We ended up having immaculate conception. As a matter of fact, we had the immaculate conception twice, it was a miracle. I tried to explaining that to a father, it didn't go over really well.

Howard Farran:

I remember one time I spent that night at my ex's house before we got married, and her dad said, "I don't want you sleeping in the same room with my daughter, because I don't trust you." And I said, "Trust me, dude, I'm sleeping with your daughter."

No, that was a joke.

I want to go over ... You've written so many books. Let's go over some of the books.

Paul Homoly:

What have you got there?

Howard Farran:

I want to say, you wrote, Dentists, an Endangered Species a survival guide for fee for service care.

Paul Homoly:

That's right.

Howard Farran:

Talk about that book. Is that still ...

Paul Homoly:

Yes it's still available, but that was written probably a year or two after I left practice. I left practice in 1995, so that was probably 1997 ish.

Howard Farran:

Oh my god, look at that, People who bought that book on Amazon also bought my book, Uncomplicate Business.

Paul Homoly:

Look at that.

Howard Farran:

We have so many things in common.

Paul Homoly:

We both got five stars.

Howard Farran:

And we both have five stars.

Anyway, talk about that book. What are the lessons from that book for my homies.

Paul Homoly:

Dentists, an Endangered Species. Back then that's when a lot of manage care came in. That's when some of the early DSOs start, and there was this big deal, oh like chicken licken, the sky is falling, dentists are going to be an endangered species. There's so many negative market factors, and what the book is about, is, no. If you want to protect yourself, the way out of manage care, is up. And what I meant by that is, up your ability to treat comprehensibly. You're going to put yourself in a market niche that people are going to want. That's what I did.

Working on poor people, doing big cases, and I did them all day long. Howard, I placed ... Now understand I started dental implants in 1978, and in a 20 year interval of time, I placed 4,500 implants, I restored 4,500 partially or totally dentureless patients in a 20 year period of time. That was before, half of my crew was before [inaudible 00:37:27], right? And three quarters of my crew was before they started teaching implants in dental schools, so I was bareback as far as all the good stuff that's going on right now.

So, Dentists, an Endangered Species was a call to dentists to improve, and that book opened so many doors for me, because what it did was it struck a nerve with the dentists who wanted to be more complete care dentists, but really didn't have the ... Knowing gave them permission, you see there's the word. Knowing gave them permission to think a little bit differently about how to talk to patients. Typically, Howard, the prevailing wisdom back then on case acceptance, here's what it was. It was, educate, educate, educate, show patients study models, and teach them everything, and talk about quality, and centric relation, and tertiary anatomy, and the more you do that; the better you are.

I did that for about five years, and one day I woke up. I said, "You, know a lot of this stuff, simply it's not working." So, what I did was I just took a contrarian point of view. I asked myself, "What if you didn't need to do any of it? What if you just needed to make good eye contact and tell some stories, and get them to trust and like you?" And then don't worry about the education so much, but build a relationship. After you build a relationship, and then determine what they can afford. What they're ready for. Right before they're ready to start, that's when I would say, "Howard, before we do any of this." Right? "You need to know the benefits, risks, and alternatives to care." And that's when I would educate.

I wouldn't use education as a sales tool. That's what holds dentists back. Is they use education for a sales tool. They think patient education is the same as influence, it's not.  And yet, where do you go, Howard? Where do you go in dentistry, today? Where do you go to learn the process of influence? Here's the answer, I don't know. Where do you go to learn how to educate a patient? Everywhere, right? You see, we have a cultural bias against what they call, they soft skills.

You go to every major dental meeting. Let's say it's a three day meeting, and there's three general sessions in the morning, and then 30 different breakouts in the afternoon, right? Now, how many of those breakout sessions are on influence? How many of those breakout sessions are on, the behavioral skills of dentists? I'll tell you how many, not enough.

So, Dentists, an Endangered Species was saying, "Guys, here you go. I'm giving you permission."

Howard Farran:

You teach speakers how to speak, and you talk about Power Points clicking putting everyone to sleep, and the dentists over educating the patients, don't buy. I cut my teeth on standup comedy. I did every open mic. I've done standup comedy in every comedy club in this valley, and I think standup is the purest [inaudible 00:40:32], because you don't get any props. You don't get any Power Point. You get a flipping mic, and you've got to communicate, and you've got to connect, and I tell everybody, "If you want to really double your practice, go be a bartender on Friday night, and learn how to talk to people. Go do standup. Go do Improv, and some of the worst speakers in dentistry, I've seen them give their best performance, when the airplane lost their carousels, and they were in the breakup room having a meltdown, "I don't have my slides!"

I said, "My god, would you need six carousels of slides to go talk about your wife, and kids, and grandkids? I mean if you need six carousels of slides to talk about your family." And then they went out there, literally shaking and in tears at the convention green room, and then they went out there and gave the best damn seminar, because they didn't have any crutches. They didn't have a Power Point, and weren't standing behind a podium.

One guy, refused to go on stage because he didn't have a suit. He was in tennis shoes, and sweats, and a shirt-

Paul Homoly:

That's happened to you. That's happened to me.

Howard Farran:

Yeah, and I was like, "Dude, this is going to be the best. As soon as you quit crying and, freaking out, and shitting your pants. Just get out there, look at these dentists, and talk from the heart." At the first break they're like, "This is awesome." And that's why I never liked that red headed comedian. What was that red headed comedian?

Speaker 3:

Carrot Top

Howard Farran:

Carrot Top, and those guys that take the little talking things out there. You know what? If you're going to be in comedy, keep it pure. Keep your toy box and your puppets. Go out there and keep the art pure. And this is how you talk to a patient.

I've done so many seminars were I never even advanced my slide to slide two, and no one came up to me and said, "We're still on the first slide." If you need a slide ...

But I want to switch gears, before I cover all your books. I think for me, and most of my friends who, you were there, Carl Misch, or you were there, Jim Pride. It was because most dentists think they're good dentists, because they've got a bunch of alphabet soup behind their names, and all the bonding agent, they went to [inaudible 00:42:52] institute, but the data is really clear, three humans have to call their office before the receptionist can convert one to come in to a chair.

And then when you look at one hundred million insurance claims filed, and I'm not talking about veneers, and implants, and all this stuff. I'm talking about just a cavity. Our homies only do 38%, so one in three. So it takes three people to get one human to come in, and you need three humans to come in, who each have a cavity, for you to fix one, and then your question to me is, "What's the best bonding?"

Dude, you don't even remove the decay two out of three times. And, that girl up there who you say is wonderful and she's been with you ten years, two people hang up and call someone else for every one that comes in. And I think you have the ability, you have the most ability to make all the dentists twice as good, because if they all listen to your treatment plan acceptance, and just got two out of three people to drill and fill, and as far as bonding materials. I would any day, if you said to me, "Here's the deal right now you remove the decay one out of three times, you replace it with the greatest stuff from Ivoclar, and 3M, [inaudible 00:44:02], or we'll get them to remove all the decay, and we'll pack them with butter." I'll take butter over Ivoclar 3M any day of the week.

And I've seen you so many times with your treatment plan, case acceptance. I knew so many dentists that, and I can remember back in the day, in the 80s, everybody when you were electioning goes to break and says ... I mean you were selling $25,000 cases in North Carolina, in the 80s. I don't even know what that would be worth ... And you were selling them hand over fist, because you could sell. And then dentists say selling is a four letter word. Well, buddy, when you say you don't like selling dentistry. When you say you didn't go to dentist school for that, you're a bad dentist.

Because imagine if you were a fireman, and you could only put out one of every three houses on fire. You'd be fired. I mean a fireman puts out three out of three, and a dentist puts out one out of three, and thinks he's a good dentist.

So, my question is this, is selling a four letter word?

Paul Homoly:

No, selling is a gift. Think about it, if patients aren't accepting your care, everything that you've put into your career is at risk. The patient experience before, during, and after treatment. But, lets just go before, and in the case presentation process. During that experience, if your mindset is all about, I'm a quality dentist, and I'm going to preach quality to this patient. You see, here's the irony, good dentistry doesn't guarantee good patient experiences. Every dentist in America would agree with that.

They did this beautiful case, look at the margins, look at the contours, look at this. But, the patient is pissed off because the girl at the front desk was snotty, or the dentist couldn't make eye contact, or they think that something going screwy, or the hygienist got snippy and they were criticizing. You see, it's all those little things. It's all those little things. But, the seduction is, all the letters after the name, I'm a quality dentist, right?  The seduction disconnects.

And I tell dentists, "Don't put these people that we call patients, in the role of patient. Keep them in the role of person. Learn to talk to them about what's going on in their life. One of the biggest issues is patient readiness, especially for those cases that are like, eight, ten, twelve thousand dollars and greater. Patient comes in, he's got a lot of problems. You come in, I'm the dentist. You come in, you've got a lot of problems, "This, this and this, and you should be doing, this, and let me show you three different ways to do five different things." And when you leave there, your head is kind of spinning, right?

Now, I know about your conditions, but I don't know anything about you personally. And this is not about making friends with patients. You see, there's a difference between empathetic and being nice. What dentists, especially at this complete care level, need to realize is that sometimes patients simply aren't ready, and readiness is based on the fit issues of the patient. Their budget, their time, their health, what they're doing in their life. Patients have a lot of stuff going on in their life. And you know what, Howard? Getting their teeth fixed may not be first in line.

Maybe first in line, is losing weight, or getting a divorce, or closing a business, or getting the kids out of college. So, what you've got to do, is you've got to get in line, but you need to know were you are in the line. Once you understand the readiness of the patient, once you understand that ... So, let's say here you are, you've got a bunch of problems. So, I'm talking to you, this is before the exam, now. You've got a bunch of problems, and I'm saying, "Well terrific, Howard, I understand that you don't like the appearance of your front teeth. I can understand that."

Well, you don't like this and you don't like this.

I say, "Well, give me a sense of it. How does this get in your way? I mean, is it a work thing? Is it a personal thing? Tell me about a time when it really bothers you, or tell me about the first time." And what I do, is I get them into narrative. I get them into story telling, and then I listen. And listening is not waiting for your turn to talk. Listening is connecting with patients. So, I get them to talk, and then I get them to talk about, "Well, I see you live here in Arizona."

"I live in Arizona." Or, "My brother lives in Arizona." Or, "I'm from Chicago." And you're from Chicago.

I find something to talk about, and what I try to do is understand what is going on in their life, with their family, what's important to them. Those are all called fit issues, and now when I present dentistry ... Let's say now, it's your next appointment, and you're going to come in, and I'm going to present you care, right?

"So, Howard I know that you're really concerned about the appearance of your front teeth, because you're teaching at school, and you had some self conscious moments in front of students. I understand that. I also know that you've got a couple of boys in school. I know that you're doing some travel, and that your wife is starting a new business. The reason I mention that is you've got a lot going on in your life. I know I can get you comfortable with your appearance, but I don't know how this fits for you. This may not be the right time. Can you help me understand that a little bit better?"

Now, there's a presentation, because you see what I'm doing, is I'm trying to understand your level of readiness, and patients are surprised by that.

"Well, doc I can tell you whether this will work for me, if you can tell me how much it will cost, how long it will take, and how much my insurance."

You see, but they're asking me now, and that gives me a sense of where they are. I say, "Well, Howard a case like yours could be anywhere from five to eight thousand dollars. Typically, it takes us about two to three months for a case like yours. We're really good working with patient financing. Joy, my office manager will help you with that. Does that fit for you, or do we need to look at maybe spreading treatment out, maybe over time? What's best for you now?

See, what I'm not ... Now you could say, "Well, you're not educating the patient." Here's what I'm doing with the patient. I'm letting them educate me. That's the deal, is you let the patients educate you as to what they need to make a decision. I learned two things. Patients need two things. Number one, I'm talking about the complex care patient. That case is greater than lets say five, six thousand dollars. Patients need for dentists to make their decision process simple. We do just the opposite.

Let me show you five different ways to do six different things. This is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. We can fix it like this, or we can fix it like this ... or we can fix it like this. You see, they make the decision process far too complicated. So, the first thing patients need, is for us to make the decision process simple. Second thing they need, they need the experience of being understood. This whole thing with patient education. Don't come away thinking that I'm against patient education, no, this is not the deal. I'm saying, education is not the same as influence, and it's influence that gets people to take action.

It's like if you're trying to lose weight. You get excited you go to the dietician. She says, "Oh, here you go." And she gives you a manual with all your stuff. "Here's what you're going to eat, and here's what you're going to do." And you're all excited about it, and you go home, and you put it there. And two days later, you're back to eating bagels and drinking coke, right? A month later you go in your closet, and you put on your jeans, you can't put them on. You try another. You can't put them on, either, right? You thought, "Ah, hell." You go back to the kitchen cupboard. You take out the manual. See, now you're influenced.

So much of what we can do as dentists, is help people imagine how they're going to feel. As opposed to, what we're going to do to the teeth. See, what we do to the teeth ... We're going to prep them, put a temporary on it, we're going to do this. That's all process centered language. We're going to do this, we're going to do this, we're going to do this. If you needed eight laminate veneers, and a couple of bridges, and you went to three different dentists. I guarantee you what will happen is you'll get three mini dental educations.

Process centered conversations, or how to conversations. And nobody will know what's going on in your life, what needs to fit in your life, how soon you can do the work, what you can afford. I remember going down to the Pankey Institute. I went through all of Pankey, all of Dawson,

Howard Farran:

So did I.

Paul Homoly:

and I love it and I thank Dawson, I thank Koise, I thank [Spare 00:52:36], they are gifts to dentistry. They really are, but where I got sideways with some of that, is it was so heavy on education, and you know what? I wasn't doing half of it, but I was doing more dentistry than anyone in the class.

And I'm thinking, "I'm getting away with something here." because I didn't educate my patients out of the office. I didn't make the decision processes complicated.

Howard Farran:

Slight interruption, how many off dentists, did you know that were doing 2-4 million dollars, went to the Pankey institute and dropped it after a year, because it made them go from like 2-4 million to like 1 million a year trying to do all this stuff. Finally, I just said, "I don't have time for all of this. I'm going to go back to my 2, or 4 million dollar practice."

Paul Homoly:

And that's not Pankey's fault. That's not Dawson's fault, not at all. What they were teaching, and they still teach is state of the art dentistry. You know what they say, "Dentistry is an art, and a science." Well, I think they're two thirds right. The third piece, is that it's a behavioral competency, and that's the piece that's missing for a lot of folks, but the illusion is

Howard Farran:

It's a behavioral

Paul Homoly:

Competency. A behavioral competency, and that's what influences. Education is a thinking-

Howard Farran:

But one thing about the occlusion. I mean I've got to credit my homies. I mean I'll tell you. If they went to 10 different occlusions at TMJ centers, they're going to get 10 different theories on TMJ. There's how many camps of ... How many times has the con dial moved since we graduated from dental school.

Paul Homoly:

It moves every year.

Howard Farran:

It moves every year.

Paul Homoly:

To tell you the truth-

Howard Farran:

And there was that Reader's Digest that I remember when they took FMX emulsion, 30 different [inaudible 00:54:24] and Reader's Digest got 30 different treatment plans. So, then they NIDR said, "Is that true?" So they went to 100, and only 2 treatment plans were the same, and that was the two dentists that said you needed nothing.

Paul Homoly:

You needed nothing.

Howard Farran:

And then 3 through 100 were all different treatment plans.

Paul Homoly:

Right, and the top treatment plan is the one that I thought, he was the only guy that got it right. I remember that study. The second thing patients need, is that experience of being understood. And that's the mirror image of patient education. That's the mirror image of it. We spend so much time telling patients, "Here's what you need to know. I'm going to educate, I'm going to educate, I'm going to educate you." To be a doctor is to be a teacher. You know that whole thing, right? I don't disagree with that, but that's a limiting belief, in that what we really need to do is understand people. Understanding people means, what's going on in their life? How do they need to fit this in their life?

You're going to buy a house. Right? You're going to buy a house. You go into your realtor, and you're going to sit down, and you're going to start telling them about price range, and what you want, and stuff like this. Well, incidentally this realtor is a former dentist, right? And this guy is Mr Fixit, guy is a former dentist. And he's going to sell you a house like he sold his dentistry. So you're talking about were you want to live in the neighborhood, and he stops you. He goes, "Oh, wait before you start telling me all about neighborhoods and schools. We need to talk about the foundation. The foundation of the house is most important, right? There are three different types of foundation. You've got cement slab, crawlspace, cement blocks. There's four different types of cement blocks, six different types of cement block joints. Here's a photo micrograph of a cement block joint."

What the hell would you think? You'd think about finding a different realtor. You see, it's those how to build it ... My brother is a carpenter, he can't sell a house. He'll tell you how to build one, but you see what the great realtors do, is they get to know, "Okay, what do you need? How will it fit?" Right? Now if you're calling what I'm talking about selling, bring it on, okay?

So, for me, language is ... They're approximations of what we mean. Words are symbols, and selling is a transaction. I get it, but relationships are more than that. Relationships, if we can accel at relationships a lot of good would happen in dentistry, a lot of good. The things that are important to me is, My heart really goes out to these guys who are mid career, they've built a big office, they've got a family going, young kids. They've got a wife, who's maybe working at the front desk, or something, right? They're in debt, a lot, and they've been to the institutes. They're alright, they're all dressed up, and they're ready to go. But they can't get out of the $2,000 - $2,200 treatment plan range. They're stuck there

And after a while they begin to get cynical, and then they begin to turn on their patients, and turn on their team, and they get angry because the bills are there. Kids are getting old, right? And now they're 45, and they're still doing dentistry like they're 35, right? And they're not ... I mean what's the expectation when you go to a continuing education seminar? The expectation is that you'll be transformed in some way. That when you leave there, you'll be better off than when you started. Many of times they're not. They'll have information, but they can't implement it, because no one has really given them permission, how to listen. No one's really given them permission to tell a story, or to listen to their story.

And this is not soft skills. This takes training. This takes a different mindset, and that's what I want to get back to. I want to get back in the trenches. I'm not practicing dentistry again, but I would love getting together with some like minded dentists, and I hope you can help me with this, okay? Like, maybe you join in, okay? Wouldn't that be fun?

Like minded dentists, and say, "guys, okay here we go, just listen to me." And do it ... And I do this style, when I do private consulting. I've got scrubs, I've got, "Dr Paul Homoly." I walk in. The dentist introduces me to their patient. I walk to the waiting room. I shake their hand. I bring them back, I bring them to the council area, and the dentist is there, and I introduce myself as, "Dr Paul Homoly, I'm a friend of the practice, and I'm here to help make you feel more comfortable in dental practice. Tell me a little bit about what you're here." And then they talk to me.

And then this dentist sees me doing it, and patients are putting online reviews, "Oh, we had a great experience." I'm not saying I'm magic. I'm just saying that I'm disruptive, in a good way, as you are. You know what I'm saying.

Howard Farran:

They were all specially selected to become dentists, because they got A's in all this arcane physics, and chemistry, and biology.

Paul Homoly:

I didn't get A's in anything.

Howard Farran:

That's why I like Facebook, because the logo of Facebook is an F, and it reminds me of all my high school grades. I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm back in high school."

I want to go over some more ... Do you mind, or do you to run? You've got another minute today?

Paul Homoly:

I take it we've got good entry.

Howard Farran:

Another book you wrote, which I think, again, case acceptance, I don't know why a dentist takes 14,000 courses on bonding agents, and asks me "Are we on bonding agents yet? Are we on generation sevens, or eights?" Like, who gives a shit dude. You can't even talk two out of three people to ...

You wrote, Isn't It Wonderful When Patients Say Yes: Case Acceptance for Complete Dentistry.

Paul Homoly:

Yep, that's my second book.

Howard Farran:

That was your second book. Talk about that book, and again, all your stars, are all five. So, that means your sister, girlfriend, neighbor.

Paul Homoly:

All my friends bought the books.

Howard Farran:

All your friends bought the books?

Paul Homoly:

The books sold like hotcakes. I just wish they'd sell like books. There you go.

Okay here's the deal, the first book. Dentists, an Endangered Species, opened the door for me, and I started teaching private workshops. I'd bring 10, 15 practices in. We'd do them in Charlotte. We'd do them in Las Vegas, Chicago, and what happened? You know how it is. You start working with dentists, what happens? You get feedback. I visit practices. I'd spend time in their practices. So, three or four years later, I had more wisdom. I said, "You know what? It's time for another book."

So the second book, Isn't It Wonderful When Patients Say Yes, is based on my life experiences as a trainer, and as a coach, for that two or three year interval between the first and the second book.

The third book, called Making It Easy for Patients to Say Yes, that's five years later.

Howard Farran:

Who's that girl on the cover?

Paul Homoly:

Some model.

Howard Farran:

Just some model?

Paul Homoly:

A lot of people think it's my daughter, it's not. My daughter complained about it. "Well you should put me on the cover of your book." That's kind of The Bible, to tell you the truth, it's over 300 pages. It took me almost three years to write it, and it is a fairly definitive work. As a matter of fact, one of my projects this summer, is I'm going to offer a second edition. I've evolved a lot of my tools through work with different practices, different DSOs, and I'm seeing where I need to teach better, where I need to be clearer. So, Making It Easy for Patients to Say Yes, will be revised, and I'll make it a new offering.

Howard Farran:

So was that your last book?

Paul Homoly:

No, that's my third book. My fourth book is, Just Because You're Leading... Doesn't Mean They'll Follow, that's a novel. That has been-

Howard Farran:

Is that about dentistry?

Paul Homoly:

No. That's about a guy named Dan, who is the CEO of a large financial service organization in Chicago, and his mentor, a fellow named Stanley.

Howard Farran:

This is fiction, that you wrote?

Paul Homoly:

This is fiction

Howard Farran:

Where you drinking wine when you wrote it?

Paul Homoly:

A lot of it. It's been my favorite book to write.

Howard Farran:

Really?

Paul Homoly:

And what it is, it's kind of a Karate Kid story, where you've got a high end executive. Here's the story, Dan was a top sales person for, Granite Financial, that was the name of the financial firm. And, Dan did so well, that his company promoted him into leadership. Well, what happens to great sales people when they make them sales manager? Well, they don't do so well, because sales is a different energy. So here Dan is now leading the company, and he found that all his energy, and all his charisma, as a sales person really wasn't working well with his internal team.

He could influence customers, but working with his team became a little bit more difficult. His office manager, July suggested that Dan find a mentor in the previous CEO, a guy named Stanley, and the book is about Stanley and Dan working together in a mentor, mentee relationship, and it's completely applicable to dentistry, but there's not a dental word, or dental term in it.

It's called, Just Because You're Leading... Doesn't Mean They'll Follow.

Howard Farran:

You're a genius. You know why? In NBA school, I got my NBA from Arizona State University, and there was one course that nobody could teach, and it was operational logistics. Most people in NBA school said, "They go through the course, they still don't get it." And there was this guy, and he was named ... He wrote a fiction book. His name was, [Eli Goldratt 01:04:14], and he wrote a book, and it was ... What was the name of that book? Here he is, the ... But it was a love story. So, it was this ... God I'm so old it doesn't even make the first page of the Google, now that he's written so many books.

But what was the name of that book? But anyway it was ... So this husband every night would go home, and him and his wife would have dinner. He would complain about the fact that they never used any calculus, no charts, no graphs. Then he met this guy at a bar, and they would talk about what's wrong with the factory. Everybody at NBA school, back in the day. They all figured out, all the NBA schools, that if they read this fiction book first, then they got it. Then you could fill in all the charts, and graphs, and math, and all that kind of stuff.

Paul Homoly:

That's what Just Because You're Leading... Doesn't Mean They'll Follow, is. You read it, and it gives you the sense of story. Gives you the sense of accomplishment. Gives you the sense of spirit. Plus there's a bit of a love story in it too.

Howard Farran:

You've got to have the love story.

So then your last book was Just Because You're an Expert... Doesn't Make You Interesting?

Paul Homoly:

There you go, Just Because You're an Expert... Doesn't Make You Interesting, I wrote that book as support for my work with key opinion leaders, because I teach it in a two or three day workshop, but you know how it is. You go to a workshop. You get all your notes, and, "Well What did he say about this? Or what did he say about that?" So I wrote this book as, kind of like, a how to book, on how to be interesting memorable, and influential in front of a room. It's called Just Because You're an Expert... Doesn't Make You Interesting.

Howard Farran:

You know what you might want to add to your local teaching deal? The Tempe art center has one of the most amazing improv classes, and standup comedy classes. I think they're both six week programs. There are two teachers there, and I think that if any dentist, no matter where they lived, if they went and took improv lessons, or standup comedy lessons, just for one lesson. You would connect twice as well.

Paul Homoly:

I did that in Charlotte, Charlotte had the Comedy Zone. This is when I was still in practice, Howard. I get this mailer from the North Carolina School of the Arts, a six week standup comedy course at the Comedy Zone. They gave the instructor names, and they're all standup comedians, and I said, "Hell, I can do that. I'm funny, people laugh at me all the time. I get in front of audiences, and I just tell dental stories, and this should be easy." It was the most challenging course I ever took. And you know what? The people that really did well, the funniest person there, was the Frito-Lay truck driver.

She was this big fat woman. She'd get up there and talk about her big fat rear, and she'd wave it around, and people were crying. And graduation, graduation was, we presented a two minute standup skit in front of 300 drunks at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte. I'm rarely, rarely nervous before a speaking event, as a matter of fact, it brings me energy. I calm down when I walk on stage. But, that night I just, thought, "Wow ..." It's such an art.

Howard Farran:

I love that art.

Paul Homoly:

Oh it's such an art.

Howard Farran:

I get more high doing 30 minutes at one of these little comedy clubs, than I do all day. But, that Frito lady, I want to meet her, because my favorite dinner, to this day. My owns Sonic Drive-In, and it was a Frito chili pie. It was crushed Fritos on the bottom, then a spoon of chili, and then grated cheese on top. If that's not the best meal ever made, there never was one.

But yeah. I think that's [inaudible 01:07:48], Because again, they'll go ... Have you ever gone to a [Gordon Christian 01:07:51] seminar? Four hours in the morning of all the wear rates of every filling known to man. It's like, is that a problem? Do people's fillings actually wear down and ... And then the whole afternoon is four hours of bonding agents. Is that your other problem? Your fillings all wear down, and then they fall out?

And then you go look at their deal, and you say, "Okay, in 2016, you diagnosed 4,000 fillings, and you did 800." And you want to know more about bonding agents?

And then the other thing is, if they can't convince the person parting with their money, because even those poor people that you were talking about going to Western Dental in Aspen and living [inaudible 01:08:37] All Americans are going to spend all their money. A fool and their money, always part. The rich people have a savings account, and the other 95%, if they get paid a dollar, they'll spend a dollar ten. If they win the million dollar lottery, they'll be bankrupt in four years.

The average player in the NFL is bankrupt, how many years he was in the NFL. So the average player in the NFL is three and a half years, so three and a half years after he's retired, he's bankrupt. So, if they're going to spend all their money, my mission is, well if I max out your credit card to fill your eight cavities, now you can't go spend it on whatever the hell you're going to buy at Ikea, Walmart, a big screen tv. I mean they're going to spend all their money, so I want to max out their credit card on a better decision, which is healthcare, than big screens, trips to Six Flags over in Texas. And they're going to have fun, even if they blow all their Six Flags at Texas money at the dentist, because they're just going to have a drunken barbecue in their back yard.

I think health care is a sovereign profession. My favorite role model, when I was little, It was Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who just lived with the poor, while all the fancy priests lived in the Vatican and owned a helicopter.

Paul Homoly:

They've got the velvet robes.

Howard Farran:

And helicopters.

Paul Homoly:

Right.

Howard Farran:

And then the other one was Martin Luther, because he was the one who called bullshit on the church, and that they were saying all these things, but they weren't.

So, he converted it to common German, so the people could read, and find out that everything they're saying out there. "That your mom died, and she can't get into heaven, til you give me six silver pieces." And he converts them in German and says, "I can't find were it says that." And you and I have always been rebels, and like Martin Luther, kind of a rebel with a cause.

Paul Homoly:

I was raised catholic too. I remember.

Howard Farran:

Is Homoly Italian?

Paul Homoly:

No, it's Hungarian, and Polish.

Howard Farran:

Hungarian and Polish.

I had to go to mass every single day from birth until I left home, seven days a week. First ten years, it was in Latin, and I think it was the best thing in the world, because for one hour, you had no idea what that guy was saying, he was like [inaudible 01:10:52]. So, for one hour you couldn't distract yourself. You couldn't go play. You couldn't ride your bike. You couldn't eat breakfast. You had to sit there, and actually be alone with your thoughts, and think. And then you started thinking, "Well, after this I have a spelling test, huh ... What were them ten words?"

And just to think of the ten words would be something, let alone just to be able to spell. And I think that one hour, I think what it was, when the masses were at night ... I used to go back to Latin, because then you would just tone out the whole thing, and just start meditating. I think that little lesson of just sitting there, and not be distracted, and think, and entertain yourself ... Made you think.

Paul Homoly:

Getting back to the wear rates of fillings, and bonding agents, and all of that. I am personally glad there's people like that. So much of my success with implant and reconstructive dentistry was based on what egghead grinders were doing in laboratories, understanding titanium alloy, osseointegration, different cements, and all that stuff. That's not for me. I get it, but how much do you need of that to be successful with a patient? The problem is that, the pendulum for many dentists, swings too far. They swing into this professor mode. They go so far technical that they lose the sense of touch with people. So frankly, I'm glad there's people that talk about wear facets, and wear rates, and bonding agents. Do I want to teach it? No

My unique ability is different. What's interesting about that, is again, I'll use the word seduced. Dentists get seduced a lot. You look at that speaker, he's successful. He's got a big house, He's got a national reputation, and he's studying wear facets. Well, I want to be successful. What should I study? Wear facets.

And meanwhile, guys like you and me, we're stuck in some breakout session somewhere, or they put us in front of a general session, and we say things that they've never heard before, but they don't hear it again. Imagine if there was 20 Howard Ferrans, or there was 20 Paul Homolys, or 20 Carl Misches, right? Giving a consistent message about building relationships with patients. Treating poor people. Getting to know people. Getting that into culture.

You know how it is. The dental culture, culture as the accumulated beliefs and behaviors, doesn't support the behavior skills of influence. It's all patient education, it's all technical. Some dentists can make it work. You know the dentists who can make it work, are the ones who learn how to connect. How many dentists have got all the degrees, and yet they're all stuck doing $1,800 cases. Nothing wrong with an $1,800 case, if that's where you want to be.

Howard Farran:

There's nothing wrong with an $1,800 case, but there's something wrong when a mom brings in her five kids, and each one of them has three cavities, and they walk out the door, and she goes and buys an iPhone. And you're sitting there wanting to know what bonding, You know what my theory is on bonding agents? You know what my theory is?

Paul Homoly:

Okay, what is it?

Howard Farran:

I had been to [Lichtenstein 01:14:10] where Ivoclar develops this stuff, and they have like 80 guys in white coats. I've been to Minneapolis–Saint Paul. I've been to 3M more times, because my sister her cloister [inaudible 01:14:20] monastery is in lake Elmo. So when I go to Minneapolis–Saint Paul, I've got to spend four hours and one minute somewhere. So I either go to Patterson, and go talk to, it was [Pete Frechette 01:14:35] at the time, or I'd go to 3M, and sit in the organic chem room, and they've got like 80 people in white coats, and the leader this whole time was this little ... I mean she couldn't have been 5 feet 90 pounds, little Indian lady. Do you remember her? [Samika 01:14:43]

And you're in there and basically when they come out with a new bonding agent. It would take like five years, 5 million dollars, 80 guys in white coats. You know when they're done with it, making their bottle of glue. I bet it's really gluey.

Paul Homoly:

It's real sticky.

Howard Farran:

I don't need to talk to some dentist. Say, "Hey, what do you think of those 80 PHDs?" Like, You don't know organic chemistry. You couldn't draw the structures. You're up there saying, "Well it's got helium isotope." You don't know. You couldn't even draw hematoma, on a hema or acetone. You're full of shit. If 3M put something in a bottle, I bet it freaking works. If Ivoclar and sells a billion dollars a year of this shit, I bet it works. I want to know why Mariya, and her husband Mario, brought in three kids, each one of them had three cavities. They all left, never scheduled for anything, and then they went out and bought matching iPhones, and you said they were too poor.

You can't sell dentistry. You're focused on the wrong thing. You call it influencing. I think you could make every dentist twice as good. You could make every patient twice as lucky, if you could convince the dentist to drill, fill, and bill, two out of three of their diagnosed, just cavities, instead of one out of three.

Paul Homoly:

Howard why don't you help me with that?

Howard Farran:

Let's do it.

Paul Homoly:

You've got a worldwide forum here. I've got a passion for my topic. I'd love to work with you on it. Let's get the word out.

Howard Farran:

And I also, like your mentor, Carl Misch. I also have a photographic memory. It just has no film in the camera, and so ...

Thank you so much for coming on the show, talking to the homies. And homies, you need more influence. Get two out of three people, and we're not talking about the $25,000 Fulton arch implant. I'm not even talking ... That's the NFL football. I'm talking about little league, what's the little league football when they pull the-

Paul Homoly:

Oh, the flag football.

Howard Farran:

I'm talking flag football cavities on kids.

Paul Homoly:

Cavities on kids.

Howard Farran:

Thanks so much.

Paul Homoly:

And next time we come back, maybe we talk about, Okay for those dentists who do want to do those big cases, what's the magic there. Or maybe we want to talk about how to be an interesting key opinion leader.

Howard Farran:

We know we both now live in the same town, and the only thing in between us is Dentaltown. We've got a magazine. We've got a website. You've got to meet Tom Giacobbi, he's the editor. Meet Howard Goldstein the online-

Paul Homoly:

And we're going to be at the same meeting tomorrow. We're going to be at the summit meeting, so we're going to meet some cool people. I want to introduce you to some people there. I think they need to be on this show, to give their message. Howard, you're my friend, my friend.

Howard Farran:

Alright, thank you so much.

Paul Homoly:

Bye everybody.