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Howard:
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It is a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dino Watt. He is a relationship expert. Let me read his bio. Since 2008 award-winning mentor Dino Watt, the relationship expert, has been helping high-income providers by replicating their business success into their personal relationships. His systems have been proven to create more happiness in marriages through peace in the workplace, more freedom for the many stresses in life and more revenue in your business. The reason I called you Dino, and I'm so glad you took me up on the offer to be podcast interviewed, is dentistry is just a people business.
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A normal healthy human is hard-wired for empathy and sympathy. I grew up with my dad. He owned restaurants. For 10 years I worked for my dad from age 10 to 20. People are so happy to come into a restaurant. They're going to eat cheeseburgers and onion rings. I remember when I took my four boys to Disneyland. I seriously am not making this up. A kid was so excited, jumping up and down, he crapped his pants. Then we go into dentistry. Now we see the other end of people.
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They come in. They're scared. They're hurt. They're in pain. They're grouchy. They're not in a good mood. Then we're going to give them a shot, do a root canal and drain their bank account. A lot of that, I notice when I'm working on a patient. After doing this 28 years, I know when they're stressed because I feel the tension coming up in me. I feel my heartbeat going up and up. I feel my chest [inaudible 00:01:48]. I talk to me and the patient. I go, "Just relax. Come on. Relax your hands."
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Dino:
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Nice. You're talking to yourself but you're talking to them.
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Howard:
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Yeah and the assistant. We're all going to feel this. I remember when we were little people would make fun of people who thought there was such thing as a sixth sense like ESP. After being on dentistry for 28 years, I believe in ESP because if you're stressed out, you're stressing me out. Then dentists have been tagged as having this carried onto their personal life, that they've had a high suicide rate, substance abuse problems. They say 18% of dentists during their career will be treated in-house for in-patient for substance abuse about 80% of the time alcohol.
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Dino:
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Wow.
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Howard:
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About 15% of the time will be prescription narcotics like Vicodin and Percodan and 5% for everything else. Then a lot of dental assistants [inaudible 00:02:43] over the years she'll say, "I left my dental office. I'm in a real happy place." I'd say, "Why did you leave the dental office?" The Number One reason I've heard is, "He's too moody. He throws instruments. The third time he threw an instrument, it hit me. My husband made me quit." It's just a crazy, perfect storm of stress. I see dentists on Dental Town. They're 40 years old.
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They're talking about trying to retire before they're 50 or retired before they're 55. Here I am 53. I would start crying if I retired. If you told me I could never pull a set of wisdom teeth again, I really would. I'd probably just cry. I wanted to get you on. I called you. You didn't call me. I've heard so many great things about you. I know you're a relations expert. You talk about marriage, workplace. I don't even know what questions to ask you.
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You're talking to several thousand dentists now, probably 80% in United States, 20% in literally every country they measure on iTunes. They get downloads on the show. What advice would you give these dentists in a high-stress job so that they don't throw instruments at their assistants? They don't go home and eat Vicodin and don't want to beat up there wife and get a divorce or, at the very worst, take their own life?
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Dino:
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I've got to tell you. First of all, Number One, it says a lot about you that you can feel that when that patient is in the chair because when you stop feeling that is when I think you really need to be worried as a dentist, as a professional. When you are not showing that empathy and feeling that connection to every patient that gets into your chair, then there's a challenge. There's your biggest problem but thank you for having me on this show. This is exciting for me too. I would say the Number One thing that I want people to really get is the most important relationship you ever possibly have is with yourself.
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Dentists are doctors. Doctors are nurturers. Nurturers are healers. Just by their nature, they are givers. Most doctors that I run across have a really tough time receiving. The problem is you can't give from an empty cup. The more you give, give, give, give, give and give without feeding yourself, whatever that means for you, whether it be a hobby, whether it be the way that you give back, something that has nothing to do with dentistry, and I don't know, but when you feed yourself, then you actually can be a better person but I see these doctors who just drain, drain, drain and drain and work, work and work.
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Of course, it's going to show up in both their relationships inside the office, with their team members and then also with their spouses but yeah, that suicide thing. As a matter of fact, I saw your video a while ago on the suicide and trust that you talked about. That was really powerful because Number One, you taught some great examples in there about how to run your office but two, to trust people, to be able to open up and talk to them. I think we all in our society have this we're supposed to look good. We're supposed to not let other people know that we're having a challenge, whether it be in our marriage or in our practice.
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We don't trust enough people to out there and say, "Hey, man. I'm struggling. This is not working out for me. I don't know what to do." I've been doing this now for over a decade. It is really shocking to see how many people are afraid because of the way it might make them look or they think other people might look at them to go out and get some help. The Number One thing, the most important thing, take care of your first.
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Howard:
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I agree. Say they have five staff people. Say they have two front office, two [inaudible 00:06:22]. Those five will file out the door to go home. Zippy do da, zippy day. My oh my what a wonderful day. The dentist stays back puking up blood clots because he doesn't know how he's going to make payroll on Friday. I'm like, "Why doesn't your team know this? Why aren't you sharing this and letting everyone know so they can all help you with the books, the accounting, the collection policy and squeezing in a toothache?"
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Dino:
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That's just it. If you've done your job right and built the team around you that you should, then they're going to be more than happy to help you. You just have to let them in on it. I call it one of two things. You either have to have a state of the business address where you need to come in at least once a quarter and say, "Hey, guys. This is where we are. This is what the numbers look like." I find it fascinating. So many doctors that are afraid to tell their team what the numbers are, which they're guessing anyway and some of them know anyway but to let them know this is what's going on, good and bad.
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Then the other thing is what I call the come to Jesus conversation, which is, "Look things are not working well or we need to do something different. We've got to change our attitude. We've got to change this. I'm not working right. What can we do?" I think they'd be shocked. I know they would be shocked because I've seen it over and over again that when they do reach out and say, "This is what's going on. I'd love your assistance in it," people support what they create. When you ask them to help you, then they're going to help you create stuff. They're going to support you more but you've got to be willing to do that.
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I know there's going to be doctors because I've had the doctors say this to me. It's like, "I don't trust my team. I don't trust my team [inaudible 00:07:53]. They don't care. They're just there to ..." I was actually in an interview last week with a medical doctor here locally. He was like, "Look. These people don't care. They come in. They're here and passive. If something better comes along, they're going to go to that. If their husband gets a job, they're going to go out and leave because they've got to transfer with the job or whatever."
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I said, "Man, don't you want a team that would rather not move because their husband got a job because they love the culture and the vision that you've created for them? That's the type of team you should create. You should create a team and should be able to create a team that wants for your good more than they want for the paycheck. I know that sounds Polly Annish but it happens. There are people out there who will do that, if you build the right team. Like I said, just tell them. They'll support you, if you do what's right."
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Howard:
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I read this a long time ago. Then I read it about five years ago. Then I've asked a lot of people this who are in a similar situation. I'll around the table. I'll say, "Tell me what you like. What is important about a job?" It seems like all the men start with money. All the women start with, "I like the people I work with. I feel good about what I'm doing. I like my job. Money's three, four, five or six." The same thing with an associate-ship. They'll come out of school. If one doctor has been married five times, no staff stayed there longer than two years none of his patients come back but he pays more money, they'll go to hell for a little more money instead of going to work for some nice guy.
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He's been married for 40 years. He's got staff that have been in there 25 years. He's got this big recall bracket because everybody wants to come back. I'm like, "Man, you paid all that money to go to dental school. Why don't you take a pay cut and go learn from a mentor where you'll learn about people, business and management," but they just service that all-mighty buck, whoever.
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Dino:
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It's just like you said about going to dental school. Nobody teaches them this stuff. That's what I really had to come to terms with when I first started. When I first started my business, it was all only mentoring people on their marriages that were doctors, orthodontists, chiropractors. I slowly started to realize, most because they kept saying this, that in their practice it's the same problems, the same communications. It's the same business problems that they didn't understand. I'd been an entrepreneur my whole life. Ever since I was 21 years old, I've been an entrepreneur.
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To be able to put those skills into place, what I started to recognize is these guys don't have a clue, not just business-wise, not just how to crunch the numbers, but when it comes to personal relationships, which is what business all about, they don't know. No one taught them. I call them [propreneurs 00:10:37]. You've got a professional degree. You've shoved out to be an entrepreneur. Nobody taught you anything. These propreneurs are out there in the world. They are struggling an frustrated.
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What they're doing, too, is they're learning what they know from the other guy who was there before them, who they either bought their practice from or was, hopefully, their mentor in some way, but that guy also tried to figure it out on his own. There's not enough resources that are as good as a Dental Town type resource that teaches them this type of stuff. I think the biggest dis-service .. I just spoke last Sunday to the American Student Dental Association, District 10 up there.
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I told them, I said, "I come to you from the future. You guys are first, second and third-year students. I'm not a doctor. I just deal with doctors on a daily basis from guys who have been in the business 25 years to five years. The biggest dis-service I can tell you that is happening to you right now while you're in school is no one is teaching you this stuff. No one's teaching you how to deal with relationships. No one's teaching you how to have a really specific vision of what you want and what you should want in life so that you're going for the right job as opposed to going for the wrong job and five years later, 10 years later, being totally burned out because you went for the wrong thing because you didn't know how to think through that process."
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It's very interesting. THat's why I love doing this is because it's an ah-ha for so many people like, "Oh yeah, I should think that way. Oh yeah, I can have a business the way that I want it. I can create these relationships within my office that support me, even when things are bad."
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Howard:
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It's called natural selection. They always wondered why Europe had 1/2% bipolar rate and America had a 4% bipolar rate. It took them 50 years to figure out that who was the most likely person to leave Europe and just say, "Forget this country," throw everything down, get in a boat and sail to America? Itt was someone on a hypo-manic edge. 500 years of immigration, America ... In fact, there's a book on it called "The Hypo-Manic Edge: How a Little Bit of Craziness Leads to a Lot of Success." We basically drained Europe of all their manic, bipolar stuff.
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Then dental school takes it even a step further because if you are well-rounded in college, make As, Bs, a C or two, join a frat, have a girlfriend and have a nice life, you're never going to get accepted to medical school, dental school or law school but if you sit there and live in a library for three years and no frat, no fun, no girlfriend, no nothing and just hammer down like I did, I got in a year early. Who shows up to the freshman year dental school? A bunch of freaks who never had a girlfriend who basically memorized calculus, physics, geometry and chemistry. The dental schools, it's them accepting all the people who are like scientist freaks. Then they get out.
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They realize that all the calculus, physics and geometry you memorize you'll never use a single time in your entire career. Now you've got to explain to them, "This is Wimpleton, what a root canal is." She's mad that Obamacare doesn't pay for it. It's like, "But why would your boss and your President need to pay for the fact that you don't brush, floss or take care of your teeth? In fact, you carried a Mountain Dew into the operatory." It's tough. They get frustrated.
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Then they're perfectionists. They'll sit there and do a filling in some pig's mouth who hasn't flossed in a decade and brought a Pepsi to the dental appointment. It's just slightly wrong. Then they'll redo the whole thing. Then they're running the whole schedule an hour late because they always have to do A plus dentistry in mouths who don't care.
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Dino:
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Yep. It's going to be ruined the moment they walk out the door. I totally agree. You're so right, this perfectionist idea, this hyper perfectionist in way. I said this at my speech last week. I say this a lot. I don't mean this in a mean way but there is a certain point to where your God complex, which a lot of doctors have, gets in your own dang way. It's because you're not willing to say, "Hey, I need help," or, "That's good enough for what it is." Like you said, when the client is not performing he way that you would want them to perform and you're superseding anything possible that they can ever achieve, you're even setting them up for failure, let alone setting yourself up for failure and frustration.
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Howard:
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Most people are so complex. It seems like every single person that's ever gotten mad at me for being involved with fluoridating the water in Phoenix that have literally come to my office and chewed me out have a pack of cigarettes in their pocket. I'm like, "Really? The Marlboro doesn't bother you. It's us putting fluoride in the water." You started off in marriage advising. What marriage advice do you give? There's a lot of people [inaudible 00:15:45].
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In fact, I know a lot of these podcast fans are husband and wife. 30% of the girls in the dental school married a boy in their class. There's just tons of couples right now listening to you right now driving to work. Most all of my feedback on these podcasts, it's going to work. Right now, you're probably talking to at least 100 man and wife couples. They're both a dentist. They're driving to work. Give us some marriage advice. I've been recently divorced six years ago. My advice, just don't do it but [crosstalk 00:16:16].
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Dino:
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Marriage is the Number One cause of divorce.
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Howard:
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Give us some marriage advice. Then give us some tools to how we could deal better with our staff and our patients.
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Dino:
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They're probably almost one in the same. The idea that I always look at is two of the most common challenges in marriages are communication and money. Those are the two Number One stated cause of divorce in the world is money. The Number One stated challenge that couples have whenever I ask anybody is, "Oh, we just don't communicate right. We're not on the same page." One of the most fascinating things is that when I really do talk with couples and I find out what their biggest challenge is when it comes to communication, I find out that it really isn't communication. It's perspective of that communication.
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Let's just say a young lady marries a guy but when they're getting to know each other, he's funny. He's spontaneous. She loves that about him because he's really not that funny and spontaneous. Their lives have been structured a certain way. She's just really attracted to that. Cut to 10 years, 20 years later, that same guy now in her mind has become sarcastic and not spontaneous. What's the opposite of spontaneous? Sorry. I just went blank, sarcastic and unreliable. This becomes the exact same thing, just looked at in a different perspective because of 20 years of my opinion or 20 years of what I think I should have had or whatever.
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That perspective is something I think they have to get a grasp on, that they're able to look at some body and say, "I used to love that they were so organized. Now they're just anal retentive." No, they're actually still the same person. Actually, you're looking at it differently. We all do this. If you look at the research from the University of Washington, Dr. John Gottman, he has some amazing research. He shows there that basically, 60% of the challenges that any couple has in their marriage will never go away. They're perpetual problems. THey're just not going to change. 30% of it is what you can change.
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For me, I look at is looking at statistics going, "Wow. Then I only have to focus on the 30% of the challenges my wife and I have." Most people focus on the 60% that they can't do anything about. The Number One tool that I tell couples is to have what I call a marriage mastermind where it's a once a week, at the worst once every two weeks, sit down. It's a time where we get together and we talk about what's actually happening, black and white. It's not a complaint session.
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It's a, "Hey, how are we doing? What do we need to focus on? What are the challenges that we're having," and even simple basic things like, "What's our calendar? What's going on this month? What's going on next month? What's going on with the kids?" It's much more involved but that's my staple. In my opinion, it is because my company for the marriage side of it is called The Business of Marriage. I did that because I looked at businesses that were very successful and saw all the systems they have in place.
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They can actually almost predict the outcome that they're going to have because of the system. Why don't we do that in marriage? Let's have a system for all these different areas. The employee review. A lot of companies don't do employee reviews every quarter, which I am a firm believer in. You do an employee review every quarter. You get to know what's going on in these people's lives. You let them know that you care about them. I would do the same thing in your marriage.
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Those two things in your relationships in your home and in your business will totally transform the communication that you have with each other, Number One, because the other person knows you care. There are three things everybody in the world most about, that you hear me, that you see me and what I say matters. If people know that you know that and that you believe that, if people know that you see them, you hear them and what they're saying maters to you, it transforms communication overnight. Those two things, having the marriage mastermind in your marriage and then having an employee review every quarter are going to transform the communication.
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Howard:
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I see a lot of times the staff, they're afraid of the dentist. Dental assistants, I've [inaudible 00:20:39] all over. A dental assistant will come up to me and say, "Would you talk today about impression technique?" I'll say, "What's your greatest problem?" She says, "When the impression [inaudible 00:20:50]." She'll say, "The lab man is afraid to tell the dentist the impression is bad because he doesn't want to lose the account," because a crown and bridge lab has 10 guys giving him $5,000 a month in dentistry.
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They don't want the dentist to say, "Screw you. I'll find someone else." The assistant's afraid of losing her job. I call it the Saddam Hussein syndrome where if everybody that was around Saddam Hussein if he said, "Can I attack Kuwait and keep America out," if you said, "No, they'll slaughter us," you were killed. You just ...
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Dino:
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Right. The yes man.
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Howard:
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... slaughtered my yes man. I don't see safety. I can tell my assistant, Jan, something. She can argue with me for 20 minutes and all that because she knows she's safe but most assistants and most lab techs, most supply reps ... A lot of supply reps are listening to this. They drive around selling supplies with Banco, Patterson and Henry Shine.
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They just can't go up to you and say, "Dino, you're the only guy in South Jordan, Utah that does this. If you would just try this or, ..." because you're just going to fire her. She doesn't want to be fired. Tell these dentists that doctor complex, that I'm a doctor. You're not. We're doing it blue. I don't want to hear nothing else. Talk to these guys about that. How can they just relax?
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Dino:
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Here's the thing. I think that a part of that is an ego issue. Obviously, they don't want to look at. Nobody wants to look bad, especially if your name's over the door. This is your building. It's all on you. There's a challenge of that. How you can overcome that challenge is really knowing who you are in your core values and what you've set up as rules inside your office. I always say that in order for a culture to be created, you have to have a vision, expectations and support.
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The expectations part of it is really being able to say, not core values like, "We have an integrity." I would hope you have integrity or, "We give great customer service." I'd hope so. No. What's your core value? What do you mean? In our office we believe in radical transparency. We believe in open and honest communication. We believe in only having good days and great days. When you have those core values and as the leader of the office, which is really hard for a lot of doctors to fully be a cheerleader.
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As the leader of the office, then they are the ones who have to be first in line for all of those. If somebody's coming to them from a place of, "Hey, doc, I don't think that this is correct, you shouldn't be doing this or whatever," and they're doing it from a place of genuine concern and genuine radical transparency, for example, if that's one of your core values, then you have to be willing to take that in and know that it's not an attack. There's a great saying. I'm sure many people on this call have heard it before but it's, "Nothing has meaning but the meaning you give it."
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Howard:
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I've never even heard that.
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Dino:
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You've never heard of that?
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Howard:
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Nothing has meaning but the meaning you give it.
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Dino:
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Yeah. When you think about that, it's truth. No matter what somebody says about you or to you it doesn't mean anything, unless you give it the meaning. You messed up on a crown. The patient comes in yelling at you. You're a sucky doctor or whatever. You can take that in as truth and put meaning around it like, "Wow, man. I am a sucky doctor. Maybe I did things wrong. Maybe I didn't do this," as opposed to saying, "Hey, the fact is something happened. Something happened with the crown. It went bad. I'm going to fix that thing."
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Somebody was mad at you. An accident happened. Something bad in your family happened. You put meaning on this. We all are meaning-making machines. We put that meaning out there as opposed to just saying, "Hmm. What actually happened? This person gave me feedback.
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This assistant said, 'Hey, doctor. I think we should do this instead.' They gave me feedback. I'm going to take that in as a professional, not personal, as a professional and go, 'Huh. What does she mean by that?' Maybe I overlooked something. She's not saying I'm a bad person. She's not saying I'm not a good doctor. She's actually doing that actually to help me out. Good feedback," because everything's feedback. Everything's feedback. When somebody complains to you, when somebody is upset with you, it's just feedback. It doesn't mean anything unless you say it means something.
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Howard:
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That was very interesting. You agree that if you can't keep your spouse, your can't keep your spouse and you can't keep your patients, would you agree with that? If you have high spouse turnover that is related to high employee turnover which is [crosstalk 00:25:38]?
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Dino:
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Absolutely. I've never really heard it said that way but that's absolutely true because what I would say is when I'm talking to couples is I'll just say, "So ..." A lot of times I'm dealing with male doctors and then their female wives, obviously. I'll say to the wife, "Hey, what do you think about his team? Do you think he has this problem with his team as well, this type of communication?" "Oh yeah." She sees it.
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Of course, she has her opinion on it but when I go into the office, I'll interview the people in the office and I'll ask questions not directly so, "Is your doctor doing this, this and this," I'll ask questions that help me understand how they feel about the doctor but I always see a mirror. Look, if you can't communicate well in your marriage with your spouse, then you're probably having challenges inside your office too. If you're a dictator, a dominator, in your home, you're probably going to be a dictator, a dominator, in the office and vice versa or it's the exactly opposite.
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Because of the stress and frustration, sometimes I see doctors who are completely weak, intimidated and really what I call beta on the beta side of things at home. Then to get it out of them, they become alpha, over-domineering, in the office. It's really an interesting play but I think in almost everything, I can point out business stuff where I go, "I bet you're not a really good marketer."
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My wife and I are body language experts. As a matter of fact, when I speak sometimes and I go to offices, I do a communication program where it's all about body language. I will go into doctors. Especially in study groups I love this. I can walk around. I can see the doctors, especially when they're talking to other females or any other women in the room or they start talking about women, I can tell who have emasculation problems, who are being challenged at work.
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Howard:
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Who are being what at work?
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Dino:
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Challenged at work in their masculinity.
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Howard:
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Isn't emasculation when the other sex makes you feel weaker?
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Dino:
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Right, when they're being dominated basically by the other sex.
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Howard:
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I see this a lot where the woman dentist makes the big bucks. Her husband makes just a little money. They'll come up to me and say, "The fact that my wife makes so much money, it makes me feel emasculated."
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Dino:
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Absolutely.
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Howard:
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I say, "Just try not to think of that while you're vacuuming."
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Dino:
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Which just makes them feel so much better.
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Howard:
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Am I being a good counselor? Should I get out of dentistry for counseling?
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Dino:
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Hey, you're being straight-forward. It's interesting to see that. We see it a lot, definitely. Look. I believe you can have a mixture of the alpha and the beta. I think there's a very important blend between those that you need to have but a lot of times ... As a matter of fact, I was talking to Dr. Clark Sanders out of, I think, Ohio. Anyways, great dentist, general dentistry. He and I were talking. We were talking about this idea. I'm probably going to mess up the story but the basic gist of the story you'll get. They had breeder dogs in their back yard. There are I think three female dogs.
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One of their male dogs that was an indoor dog, the companion had died or whatever or maybe I ... They put that dog who was the breeder dog, sorry, in the back yard with these three other female dogs. Within two months all of a sudden, the dog wasn't able to produce any babies. He wasn't able to get any of the other dogs that they brought over to breed pregnant. They took him to the vet. They're trying to figure it out. The vet asked them, he said, "Where does this dog live basically?"
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They said, "Oh, he's in the back yard. He's never been back there but over about six months ago we put him in the back yard with three other female dogs." The doctor said, "Oh, his sperm count has dropped dramatically ever since he's been in the back with those three female dogs." He was just talking about how interesting the nature of it is when you do get around that. By the way, this is no slam on having women in your office because I know that's the way it is. It's a matter of understanding how to have a conversation with them, how to communicate with them and how to be the leader.
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I've seen women doctors, female doctors, who also become emasculated by the other women around them because they try to control. I would say that your culture, if you aren't deliberate about creating a culture in your office, it's going to be a default culture typically run by the strongest personality in the office. A lot of times, these doctors get totally emasculated by the women in the office, a female or male doctor. It doesn't matter but they get emasculated. That drops their power.
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They do things like the crying game. I had a lady call me. She wasn't even a client of mine. She was a financial coordinator in a dentist's office. She needed some help with some situations she was dealing with because she had heard about me. I started talking to her a little bit more about it. She said that her doctor actually offered her the office manager job in their office. She turned it down. I said, "Why?"
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She said, "Because I had to tell him that we all know that in order to get our way in the office, all we have to do is start crying. He'll give it to us. I can't be put in a position to where I'm going to hand out maybe a disciplinary action or something to somebody. That person's going to go to the doctor and cry and him reverse my decision. I can't live in that world." It's like, "Wow. That's really interesting. It's not new," but when she would be willing to that, "We just have to cry. We'll get our way because he doesn't want to have to deal with it."
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Howard:
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I've seen this a lot where you go into an office. There's been massive staff turnover. Nobody has stayed three years for the last 15 years but one person. That's the one person who the doctor just thinks he can't live without. She's the best person ever. She's crazy, fat chip crazy. Her best everything is when she's talking to the doctor. She gets him the Starbucks on the way to work. She fawns all over him. Then when he's in there doing a root canal, she's just crazy. What flags have you seen in marriages or ... You're talking to a bunch of ...
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Dino:
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The office of marriage, the marriage office.
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Howard:
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As far as marriage, dealing with your staff, dealing with people in general, what red flags do you see that, because I believe a lot of the dentists don't know that they're nuts. I also think older people, you learn your own tool. I think I'm a much better person than I was five years ago and five years ago a better person than 10 years ago.
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Dino:
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Sure.
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Howard:
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I just keep thinking, "I just keep learning and learning and getting better, a guide to self-improvement for 53 years," but give us some red flags to these dentists that might make them realize, "Maybe I am like that," because you know they're just sitting in the car saying, "My shit don't stink."
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Dino:
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They might be saying that but if they're also sitting in that car going, "Why is it I'm repeating the same thing over and over again," that's the Number One thing I get from doctors all the time. "I feel like I teach them something. I tell them something. Six weeks later I'm teaching the exact same thing or I'm asking for the exact same thing." That's a big red flag for me. That means that they don't take what you're asking them seriously. Now that can be a leadership issue, obviously, but it also could be a they know how to play you because if it just goes back to the same way after you try to implement something and they have that ability to overpower you, that's a big challenge.
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I cannot agree with you more, I wanted to say, about that. I see both sides, the people that are always on turnover or the people have been there forever. They just train the doctor on how they want things to run, so the doctor's just like, "I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I don't want to put any ripples in the water. I won't do anything." Number One is when you realize that the things that you're asking to be done, you're repeating over and over and over again. I also want them to check in and see how often are the conceding.
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They want something. They ask for something but then the other person, the team member, is consistently asking for a concession. Oh, okay. I'll do that but can I have this instead? I had one doctor who every time they took a vacation, which was a normal scheduled vacation for everybody, he had a treatment coordinator who her husband was a pilot. She got free airline tickets. In order to make sure she didn't waste any her time in the airport not catching the, I want to say the fly-by but that she gets the seat for free.
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Howard:
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Stand-by.
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Dino:
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Stand-by. I don't know why I thought it was fly-by. She always asked for a day off one day before and one day after because if she has to wait in an airport for a whole day on either side of the vacation, then that would be one day of her vacation that she wouldn't get. She'd have to be able to have that extra day, just in case so she could have vacation the same as everybody else in the office. This became a habit that after 10 years is when I first came into the office. I was doing a little bit of consulting and looking at him.
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I just had this conversation with him like, "Why is that okay? Why do you do that?" He said, "It's just something I don't want to to ruffle any feathers. It's just something she does. It does bug me. It drives me crazy but it's just a habit we've created." When you are making concessions on a consistent basis for people, "Oh, my kid's sick. Oh, I can't make it in that morning. Oh, I really don't want to work Fridays," whatever, when you're doing that for them as opposed to for the highest and best use of your time and your practice use, that's a challenge. Look out for that. Be honest with yourself.
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I know they're a good person. I know that they're wonderful. They have 20 kids and a husband that they've got to support because he's been laid off. There are so many stories out there as a reason why you want to give the concession but look at how it actually makes you feel and how it affects the entire office because it is a ripple effect. When you give this one person a concession over here to not do her job fully and to be expected to do everything else everybody else is expected to do, then you cause a challenge with somebody else because that other person sees it.
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In the book, "Good to Great," he talks about how you have great workers. You have one I'll call a low-level worker. That low-level worker is going to affect your best workers. The longer you keep that one low-level worker with you, the worse it is for the entire company, even if they're a really good person. Everybody I just think is a good person. It's a level playing field. It drives me crazy when I hear doctors say, "But they're really good people." I know. I'm not saying they're not bad people. They just might not be a fit for you. Love them enough to let them go find a place that fits better for them.
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Howard:
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I'm going to say something that sounds completely insane but there is good in everyone. Growing up, how many interviews did we hear of Charles Manson being interviewed or whatever?
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Dino:
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Yeah, right.
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Howard:
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He seemed like an adorable, jolly, silly nuthead.
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Dino:
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Hitler had friends.
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Howard:
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Exactly. I would listen to Charles Manson. I'm like, "He needs to be in a cage. He is completely insane but he is kind of adorable." Some of the stuff he says is cute. The reason I'm making that point is because you're right. A lot of dentists have a hard time pulling the plug and letting Mary go because he thinks, "She goes to the same church. She's got a good husband. She's got great kids. There's so many great things about Mary." I'm like, "Yeah but we're talking about she's your dental assistant."
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True or false? I've always thought that the most disruptive person in the office is the person that has highs and lows. They come in one day, "Oh Dino. How are you doing?" Four days are great. Then the fifth day they're flipped way to the other side. They say mean things. Moody people. Do you think moody people is the worst toxic thing in the office?
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Dino:
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Yeah, I think it definitely can be. When you don't know what you're going to get on a daily basis, it's got to be so ... Look. You're a doctor. You're dealing with enough stuff. You've got enough stuff on your brain. If you're having challenges with receivables or whatever it is or you just have a lot of clients that day, the last thing you need to worry about is the time bomb that might go off at 8:00 when she walks in the door. The secondary challenge is that you are too afraid to pull the plug because what if you can't fill that spot?
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Look. I hear it all the time. I don't know man, it's tough to hire somebody that's that good or it's tough to hire somebody that I want." Geez, you're really going to keep this energy-suck around you on a daily basis because you're afraid that somebody else can't fill that void? I promise you, they can. As soon as you open up that void, they will but those time bombs, man, it's ... Listen. If anything, whatever anybody gets out of this interview, I'm going to tell you this.
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If you don't think it's not affecting your clientele, that they don't see it and they don't recognize what's going on in the office, you're fooling yourself because the people who walk into the office who don't know ... See, when I come into an office, I come in as a patient. I never come in as a consultant. I want to come in as a patient because I want to see how I'm treated and how the office feels. Is this just another run-of-the-mill dental office or is there something different? Does this make me feel better?
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When you're having bad day, when Sally's having a really bad day or when there's tension, just like you said at the very beginning of the show about you being able to feel the nervousness of that patient and you being gable to feed off of that, feel that and have yourself come down, so does the patient. So does the patient's mom and dad. They feel that too. If there's an [uncomfort 00:40:09] level, their fight or flight feeling inside of them has to say, "I don't want to come back here."
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Those patients who always miss the six-month check-up, those patients who never want to come in to see you, not because going to the dentist is the greatest thing in the world, but there might be an underlying reason there of they can feel the uncomfortableness, the not niceness, of this place to be. People will spend thousands of dollars a day going to Disneyland because ... All this money that nobody has. Nobody has money.
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I don't have money for dental care, healthcare or anything like that but they have thousands of dollars they can spend for a family of five to go to Disneyland because of how it makes them feel because when Dad walks through the gates, he also gets to be an eight-year-old kid and play around through the eyes of his kid. If you've not making them feel that way when they walk in, there's going to be a challenge there. If you're making them feel the exact opposite, you can bet that's going to affect how often they want to visit you.
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Howard:
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I also think the problem with the moody ones is what I always like to see is every time I run into this employee, patient or friend, it's the same person that shows up but the ones that are moody, the problem is sometimes they're not just average. They're better than good. They're just really good. Then they're going to trend back towards the mean average by one of those times, they're going to be really bad. I think the unstable, moody person is the toughest thing. You do think that building strong relationship is the most important thing you can do to build your business.
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Dino:
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Think about it this way. The short answer is yes but if you look at your life, anybody that's listening, just think about your entire life and everything you've ever received, everything you've gotten, whether it be tangible or intangible, relationships, things, office, work, everything you've ever received has come through sort sort of relationship. Anything you ever want in life going forward will come through a relationship. We work on how to collect more. We work on how to present cases better. We work on how to even have a better environment.
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What colors should we paint the office but really the most important thing you can work on is how do I have a better relationship with myself, with my team and then with my clients? I think that permeates through everything. The relationship you have with your clients starts in your marketing because the first time they see you, what does it look like? How does it make them feel? When they go up to your website, what's the relationship you're building there? Everything's about relationships. I can thread just about anything through your relationships and the culture in your office, whether how good it's going.
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To answer even in a more direct way, as an example, I was on a call with one of my clients yesterday who he's been working with me for about 18 months. Last January I challenged him ... He's an orthodontist, actually, but I challenged him how many starts they wanted to have in this month. They had only done 35 starts in a month before. We pushed him. He wanted to do 40. They decided on 40. On the last day of the month of January last year, they hit 40, which was huge for them. They were so excited.
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Howard:
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That's huge for anyone.
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Dino:
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Right. It's gigantic. They loved it. They hit that goal. They were so excited to do it. Everybody pulled together. Everybody was on-board. Then this year they went, "We're going to push ourselves a little more." I didn't know about this until I got on a call with him yesterday. They said, "We're going to push ourselves a little bit more." They decided for 41 for this year. He goes, "Dino, as of yesterday, we're at 39 already." What has been the difference has been in the last 18 months, they have really focused on how they feel about each other. He knows all of his employees wise.
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What drives them? What's their biggest motivators in life? They know clearly what their vision is for the entire office. They know what the core values are. Those core values are their hiring and firing list. He's right now down a team member. He's trying to find one. They've been looking for one of about six months. He goes, "We've interviewed a ton of people, really nice people but when we think about our culture, who we are bringing into our space and who we're allowing to work with us and be a part of this, we just haven't found them yet."
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They're willing to wait, even though it's hard, even though it's putting a lot more pressure on everybody else because they've got to pick up some slack here and there but because of that relationship, they are doing better in their client retention. Then he says, "Dino, I don't know what's going on but over the last probably three months we've had daily seven to 10 new patient phone calls coming in. I haven't done anything different in my advertising, anything different in my marketing, nothing. As a matter of fact, I've lost one of the referring dentists. I don't know what's going on."
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I said, "I do. I told you at the very beginning of this journey that when you know who you are and you create a culture, it will be a magnet to people who want to know more about you. People will spread the word. Oh, I love going to Dr. D's office. I love that there. They will share more about you. It will bring more clients into you." Look, I know we live in both a physical world and an energetic world. I want to show energetically we can change things, that feeling and everything in the office, but I always want to show how that energy translates into hard numbers, that there will actually be an increase in the performance of your people that work with you and the people who come to you so you're going to make more money.
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Howard:
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I want to ask you a very challenging question that a lot of dentists have. You want to be nice to people. You want to hear their stories. If they want to tell you about their dog dying, cat dying, you want to be their friend but then, again, you've got to a leader. The question is how do you draw the line between ... Dino, you work for me. You're a great assistant. I want to be your friend but where do I stand back to be a leader because I always find it bizarre how when Americans talk about the greatest leaders of all time. They always talk abou generals like Eisenhower, Patton and McArthur. These guys didn't blink at D-Day. 29,000 people died on ... What was the day of that? Gosh, 68 years ago. Here.
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Dino:
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I'm not able to help you out on that.
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Howard:
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July 6, 1944. I would have a hard time throwing that many lives away to achieve my objective. These guys didn't blink. I could almost see how you could argue that maybe they didn't have empathy. Maybe they didn't have sympathy. Patton was this great general but he just didn't care about war casualties. He wanted victory. If that meant 29,000 people die on my battle plan the first day, they don't [inaudible 00:47:27]. How do you draw the line between I want to open and... You go in the break room.
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Sometimes they want to tell you about their husband, their this, their that and all their friends but I can't get too close between I can fire you. I can affect your life by giving you a raise or not giving you a raise or firing you. What are some guidelines? I'm having a hard time asking this because I'm a man but I believe from a lot of dental consultants I talk to that women just have a lot harder times managing women staff.
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One of the reasons is because after work, they go get manis, pedis, with them. They go to happy hour. They go eat cheese balls and have beers. Then Monday morning she's going to say, "You come in five minutes late one more time, I'm going to fire you." That other girl might be saying, "Dude, I'm five minutes late because we went to happy hour last night. I drink too much." What's too friendly with staff and what's too stand-offish?
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Dino:
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I think that's a really good point, Howard, because you've got to know your boundaries as an owner. I was actually just thinking about this today as I was driving today. The difference between being a business owner and company owner. This isn't completely worked out in my head, so forgive me, but my thought was business owners are people who ... Really, anybody can open up a business. Cool. I have a business. I have a widget that I sell. This is the thing I do. I make money off of that but are you a company owner? Are you somebody who wants to see this company of yours grow? If so, you've got to take a different leadership position.
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It is great to be friendly. People talk about how different leaders ... You can talk about Walt Disney. You can talk about Steve Jobs. You can talk about Bill Gates and all these people that are involved in people's lives but there is that distance. I think it's important to set those parameters up. I don't believe, unless they're you're ... I say this to a lot of my clients. Unless they're your office manager, I don't believe you should be texting back and forth with anybody in your office.
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I don't think you should be Facebook friends with people in your office, Number One, because I think it gives you a sense of freedom to not feel like you can't post something that you want to post but, Number Two, do you really want to see somebody in your office, her drunk selfie on Saturday night, because she was out partying with her friends and have that image in your head? You really don't.
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I think you need to set up boundaries in your life with both your team, and I'll bring it right back to the marriage stuff. In our marriage stuff, we talk about what are the boundaries you're going to have with friends? What are the hours you're going to spend with them? What are you going to be willing to do and not to do? I have a friend who will not ... He's a man. He will not ride in a car with a female by themselves alone, ever. That's his boundary he set up with his wife because they never want to have the appearance of impropriety.
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The challenges is in a really personal business like this where you're sitting next to your RDA or your assistant all day long, you're sharing things with them and you want to have that comrardery, it's one of the biggest challenges I think with people learning leadership skills is this is us. We can have a cordial conversation. We can be nice. Yes, I do want to know that things are going okay in your marriage and with your kids. I have a chiropractic doctor who says, "You should never have a day off because if any of your kids are sick, bring them in. I'll take care of them." Same with them. There is that piece of it.
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Then there's the, "Hey, it's 5:00. Now it's my life and your life. We have to be separate. We have to have the ability, the freedom and peace of mind to be able to say, 'We have two different lives here,'" because of the exact same thing you said. You can't be drunk with them and getting mani-pedis at night and then having to discipline them the next day because you won't be taken seriously.
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Howard:
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I have seen this in my 20 years where a doctor starts to have an affair with an employee.
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Dino:
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Yes.
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Howard:
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She's up there entering the checks. She starts thinking, "I've got a sweet deal here because I'm going to start embezzling because if he does catch me, I can say, 'You've lost a little bit of money with me but if I tell your wife, you're going to lose 10 times more money in a divorce.'" What this dentist thinks is in secret, now he's in a blackmail hostage situation. I've seen it with drugs too where she's ordering him Vicodin and Percodan. They're doing drugs together. They're having sex together. The whole world explodes.
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Dino:
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I have a client who years and years ago at a team retreat went. They were all drinking a little bit and had little bit too much. They were all dancing on the dance floor. He was dancing a little inappropriate with her, with somebody on the team. His wife was even there. Cut to two years later. He ends up having to let her go. She sues him for sexual harassment. He ended up paying a lot of money because everyone else on the team saw that yep, he was dancing with her. They didn't have an affair. There was nothing that went on beyond that but they saw the inappropriate dancing on the dance floor with him.
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Look, you're a professional. You're also human. I get that but you have to be willing to set up your own personal expectations. I will do. I won't do. We do this in our families. In my own family, we have a list of rules of what our kids can and cannot do and stuff and how they should behave. We say, "Are you a Watt kid? A Watt kid doesn't do that." My daughter right now is down in Brazil on a student exchange for a year. She's dealing with a lot of kids around her age, 15, 16 years old, that are getting drunk on almost a nightly basis because it's their summer down there.
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She's just like no matter how much people ask her to and stuff, I'm really proud because she's, obviously, susceptible, as a 15-year old, but she will. She'll be like, "Dad, I'm being asked this all the time. Parents are saying, 'Hey, it's no problem. Have a drink. It's fine. It's a different culture than America,'" but she's a Watt kid. That's not what Watt kids do. As a doctor, you've got to decide. Who are you? What do you stand for?
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If you want to be true to yourself, if you don't want to drain yourself like were talking about earlier, and that's how a lot of people will try to fill themselves is they just forget everything and go party or whatever but with doctors, you've got to be able to say, "This is who I am. This is what I stand for. I am a doctor. I am somebody who cares about my team members. I'm someone who wants them to know that I want the best for them."
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I actually even believe you have to understand you are an example to them. The reason why you should have a strong marriage with your spouse is because you are an example to five, 10, 20, 30 other people, those other women that work for you. You should want them to see you as an example but that also goes on the other end. You've got to be the example of, ... This is where that border is. This is where that line deviates between our friendliness and our professionalism.
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Howard:
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I liked it when you were talking about your culture, things you believe in. We believe in only having good days and great days, radical transparency. Do you have any other things, any one-liners like that, or any others?
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Dino:
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Yeah. What I do is I actually make everyone in ... We do a whole little exercise with every single on of my clients. It's always different with all of them because we want them to create it together but we have [inaudible 00:55:11] experience. I have one of the books that I helped write with one of my doctors right in front of me here. Their core values are we deliver a wow experience. We create open and honest communication. We delight out customers. We believe we are engaged in meaningful ways. We focus on team wins and individual improvements. We take action and be accountable. We strive for excellence and celebrate achievement. Bring the joy. I like that one. Be supportive appreciative and loyal.
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When we look at core values, and I call it the culture equation. When I talk about culture, I actually write this in my book where I say, "Most people talk about a culture." Tony Shay from Zappos is really popular right now in the business world talking about culture. I think it's buzz word but the biggest problem is nobody really defines how do you create a culture. I studied a lot of different companies and came up with the three-step process to create your own culture. It is. You have to know your vision, exactly what it is.
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What do you want for the company, for the world, whatever, on a tangible level and then the expectations, which is the road map to get to the vision? Then once you have those two, you can be supportive of the people around you, which support is the last one, but I'm not kidding when I say hiring and firing list. I have my doctors now ... Once they create their core values and stuff, there is not a single job interview that goes by that they don't pull out the list of the core values and say, "Hey, can you adhere to every single one of these? If not, you're not a good fit for us."
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Then I also have them do that in the employee reviews. All of their employee reviews are the same way. They don't have to go through, "Sally said this. Remember the one time when you did that to Joan." They don't have to do that. They just pull out the core values, turn them to them and say, "Tell me how you're doing on these. Here's one that I think we might want to work on a little bit harder." It's a list. It's pretty simple but those are the core values.
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Howard:
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I use mine during the employee evaluations that you're talking about every quarter.
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Dino:
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That's awesome.
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Howard:
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Can I read my 12?
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Dino:
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Yeah. That would be great.
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Howard:
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There's 10 commandments. I have 12 core values. Create a fun, positive and professional environment. Be passionate and enthusiastic and determined to make a difference. Be humble. Embrace and drive innovation. Follow the golden rule. Treat others like you would want to be treated. Mistakes will be made. Be accepting and/or accountable and move forward. Never stop learning. Be honest and respectful. Integrity is everything. Balance life and work and be fully present in both. Strive to make everyone feel safe, valued and important. Be remarkable helpful. Last, create opportunities to make our customers feel special.
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When I go up there and sometimes want to talk to someone about something that happened or whatever, I'll go through there and give them a letter grade for each one of them. I'll say, "You made her cry. Is that making her feel safe? You know what you were doing? You were being a bully because since she was holding the company policy, you had to beat your chest. Then she cried. It's an F. It's totally unacceptable." Hey, I want to [inaudible 00:58:48] a couple things. What if one of my homies is listening to this and wants to reach out for you? How do they contact you?
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Dino:
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You can reach me through my website is DinoWatt.com. It's D-I-N-O W-A-T-T dot com. If you're coming to the AAO in May, I'm speaking there. I'm doing a whole thing on body language.
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Howard:
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[Inaudible 00:59:07]?
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Dino:
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What's that? No, in Orlando the AAO in Orlando on May 1. I'm doing a whole session on body language and the power of it. I'm actually going to bring up a couple of doctors. If you're there, you can actually volunteer. I'm going to bring up a couple doctors and have you stand on stage. I'm going to be able to point out which ones are a little more emasculated than the other ones and then show them what they can do to change that in their body language but DinoWatt.com. You can reach me at Dino@DinoWatt.com. We are always up on Facebook.
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Forthepractice [inaudible 00:59:43] is my Facebook group. I actually even have a private study group that I reach out to practice owners of all type like dentists, orthodontists, chiropractors. I truly believe that no industry changes from within the industry. They always have to look outside the industry. My greatest example is Apple. They changed the music industry completely. They're a computer company.
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What I decided is I put together a study group on Facebook where I invite certain doctors who I think can add value to other doctors by saying ... We just talk about good stuff like, "Hey, what's a marketing plan that you've found is good? What have you found out about, I don't know, postcards? Have postcards been a good thing for you or what about online marketing or whatever?" We talk about issues like this like, "I have a challenge with an employee. I love them. They've been with me for 20 years but I just don't know what I should do," whatever. I do a Facebook group called Best Practices. That's a fun little group but those are pretty much the ways. They can also hit my book on Amazon called "The Practice RX."
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Howard:
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"The Practice RX." Another thing is I've been lecturing at dental conventions since 1990. The Number one complaint at all dental conventions is, "There wasn't any courses for my staff." They're on root canals, fillings, crowns. When we've put up 350 one-hour courses on Dental Town, they've been viewed over half a million times but a lot of people will put up a one-hour course on endo and then get booked 76 speaking engagements because people are looking for speakers on these one-hour slots. It's like a debut.
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I think you'd be excellent at a meeting because your message applies to the dentist, the spouse, the receptionist, the assistant, anybody who's a human. I think you should put an hour course on mine on Dental Town because what it really is is not only will it help a lot of people but there's 276 meeting planners in the United States as far as with the American Dental Association Triage. I think you'd get a lot of speaking gigs from it. I think you'd help a lot of people.
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Dino:
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I'd love to. I'd love to do that for you. I think that would be awesome. I tell you. Every time I speak on the subject ... I've had dental study groups where I'm just talking about marriage but it's the husbands and wives together. I have wives come up to me in tears and be like, "Why is no one ... My husband's been in practice for 20 years. Nobody ever talks about this. Our marriage is strained. It's frustrated. We almost divorced," or, "This is his second marriage. How come nobody's talking about this?"
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I am. I've searched. I'm the only person in the world who does what I do when it comes to balancing the home life and your business life with true, actual systems and principles that you can actually use within it. I would love to do that. I that I'd be honored.
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Howard:
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I would love you to. By the way, are you Scottish and related to James Watt, who's invented the steam engine?
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Dino:
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That's funny. I don't know about James Watt but everybody asks me if I'm Italian because of Dino? I'm actually Scottish. I am. I'm Scottish/Greek.
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Howard:
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Scottish/ Greek. Huh.
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Dino:
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My dad always says, "Just a bunch of angry drunks."
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Howard:
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You spray Windex on everything.
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Dino:
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Yeah.
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Howard:
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Hey, Dino, I think you're an amazing man.
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Dino:
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Aw, thanks.
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Howard:
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Homie's luck. You're up there in Utah where the God of dentistry lives, Gordon Christian. They'll go listen to this guy speak eight hours a year, eight hours every year, on the wear rates of fillings, the adhesive.
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I tell them, "You'll listen to Gordon for an eight-hour segment, the wear rates of 50 different materials when your fillings don't wear down. You'll listen to him talk for four hours on bonding strengths. Your fillings don't fall out but you know what? You've got to pay attention to yourself and keep yourself mentally, physically healthy. You need to have healthy relationships with your wife, your kids and your staff so that combined you'll have healthier relationships with your patients and be monetarily successful, pay your bills, have some savings and live happily ever after." Dino, I'm so honored that you're spending an hour with me today.
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Dino:
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My pleasure. Man, geez, I'm touched.
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Howard:
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Thank you so much for what you do. Like I say, I hope you put an online course on Dental Town because I think the profession needs a lot more of the people stuff and a hell of a lot less on the technical stuff, bonding agents, wear strengths, bone grafting. They've got way too much of that information. They've got too much match and physics, not enough empathy, sympathy and how do you talk to your dental assistants? Thank you for spending an ...
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Dino:
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I can do that right away.
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Howard:
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... [crosstalk 01:04:20] hour with me today.
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Dino:
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Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks to everybody for listening. Dr. Farran, I love following you. As a non-dentist, let me just say that I totally love your videos. I love your messages out there. It's refreshing, honestly. It is really refreshing to hear.
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Howard:
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Thanks, buddy. Have a great day.
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Dino:
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All right. Bye bye.
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