1457 Cherie Le Penske & Fred Joyal of Armor Respiration on Solving PPE Shortages & CO2 Contamination : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Cherie founded Armor Dental Corp., a dental product development company and manufacturer in February 2016. Le Penske, a seasoned entrepreneur for 20 years, also founded LP Group, a consulting firm in 2000, which provides strategic communications counsel and services to leading business and organizations including Fortune 500 companies, and smaller public and private companies. Le Penske holds five utility patents both domestically and internationally. She recently cofounded Armor Respiration, Inc, a company dedicated to improving respiratory health and wellness.
Fred Joyal is a prominent speaker and author focusing on remarkable customer service. Fred was the co-founder of Futuredontics, the parent company of 1-800-DENTIST, which just celebrated its 34th year in business. He is the author of two books, Everything is Marketing: The Ultimate Strategy for Dental Practice Growth, and Becoming Remarkable: How to Create a Dental Practice Everyone Talks About.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1457 - Cherie Le Penske
AUDIO - DUwHF #1457 - Cherie Le Penske
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It's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Sherry Le Penske she's the founder of armor dental corp a dental product development company and manufacturer that she started in 2016 she's a seasoned entrepreneur for 20 years also founded lp group a consulting firm in 2000 which provides strategic communications counseling and services to leading businesses and organizations including fortune 500 companies and smaller public and private companies her company represented clients across healthcare education mobile gaming entertainment licensing and investor relations sector lp group was sold in 2015 she holds five utility patents both domestically and internationally she recently co-founded armor respiration inc a company dedicated to improving respiratory health and wellness and that is when uh last week my buddy Fred Joyal who's been on the show before and has online ce courses he uh called me up and said uh I want to do a show he wants to bring Cherie on the show so Fred's on the show with her where are you Fred you got to say something to be on the screen just say boo I am in Los Angeles so yes I am now I am visible to everyone that's the new zoom feature that's why we switch from skype to zoom because uh my god it's gone public they got money they're doing all kinds of exciting things plus Microsoft bought skype which means it'll just be a bottom feeder filled with viruses I mean it's so insane that bill gates is leading viruses because he's been making software filled with viruses for 30 years I mean every time I bought 300 with the software from that guy I had to hire five programmers to work all the kinks out of it freed Joyal is a prominent speaker and author focusing on remarkable customer service recently retired Fred was the co-founder of future donex the parent company of 1-800 ns which just celebrated its 32nd year in business he is the author of two books which I made all four of my boys read everything is marketing the ultimate strategy for dental practice growth published in 2010 and becoming remarkable how to create a dental practice everyone talks about published in 2015 and my boys now they're all um owner operators of the oldest to own a company that they all they all work for themselves and uh my god Fred I remember pulling up to your house when I don't think any of them was three feet tall I mean are you betting they were a young tribe then yes oh my god you were such a huge mentor for them always being grateful to you of how you um really made an impact on my kids so you flew down here um tell me why what you're so excited about well you know once I stepped away from 800 dentists a couple of years ago I’m not a retiring type and so but I was looking for something that was that was that had a lot of purpose and would have a significant amount of impact and also be fun people to work with uh you know and make money but mostly it was about I wanted to have something with impact and I I looked at all sorts of different things and then suddenly right around February or march Cheri came to me and told me about this new company she was starting and I went oh my gosh it's found me this thing of great impact has found me because what she has developed is a solution to the breathing problem the mask problem that that came to a head and continues right now during coven she has developed a mask that she calls clara which is a an air filtration system that solves all sorts of problems is comfortable to wear the person is visible who's wearing it we want to give you a lot of detail on the technology but you know I’ve become very passionate about it because I’m talking to dennis all the time who say look I can't take the n95s anymore you know my team is getting headaches they're getting dizzy they're calling in sick they're you know they're I’m getting memory loss I’m impaired wearing these all of this ppe so uh this solution that we've developed which you this is actually the mousemate or the scanmate no this no mouthmate is something else that Sheree developed before this she was in the dental field she had a it's a that that's another show which would be really interesting to do but this thing she because she's been involved in dentistry in manufacturing her engineer actually developed this this new air filtration and respirator system would it still be on the same site as the mouth made the armor slash no it's on its own it's on its own website breed and adding to that my engineer her husband was suffering and recovering from cancer and Howard he um you know she wanted to develop something that was protective uh for him and she's been my engineer for six years and showed it to me and I said well that's an interesting idea so about around February timing I pulled together my husband my engineer my regulatory I called Fred who was really my first friend in dentistry a little over six years ago and I trust him um I always say he's my first friend in dentistry and so brought him right on board and we've been over the last six months almost six months now Howard really working together daily on bringing Clara and we are launching it officially uh at western period society coming up this weekend so we're really proud of it and uh look forward to telling you more about the unique cross-ventilation to the mass and where is that meeting at Scottsdale believe it or not yeah I thought he always comes so it's um I’m trying to I’m still trying to find the website um Howard use Clara mask c-l-a-r-a-m-a-s-k dot com but just tomorrow we're we really wanted something that's sent you know was more of our messaging so breathe Clara will be there that will be the new url yeah for free we're flipping it over as we speak right so it's Clara mask.com right now but that's going to change real quick right once this broadcast is out it'll be the other website the Clara mask will still go to it it'll redirect to it but yeah okay all right and it's really more than a mask we'll get into that in a minute but it's more of a respirator and it's a wearable device that improves your breathing so we thought read Clara was more defining than Clara mask right on so um so this was um so tell us your dream so you know how long have you known Fred so that's a great quick story um I you know started out in dentistry uh when I was 14 years old I was a dental assistant and I um you know worked all the way up through assisting through college and was going to be a dentist and went in a different direction and started a pr firm instead but I interestingly enough got back into dentistry um when my daughter had her tooth removed and she couldn't really brush around an area so mouth mate was my first invention that followed my scan mate so I’ve been in dentistry for a little while um for my first in as a dental assistant but also um now as a ceo of armored dental I met Fred literally Howard I didn't even know what a Patterson or henry schein or benko stood for at all and I was walking around hinman and walked into Patterson and there was a guy signing a book and he looked nice and I started talking to him and I we jokingly when we lecture together or when Fred and I do interviews I do call him my first friend and he he's my confidant I trust him a lot immensely and um and so that's how we got to know each other so friend I’ve been friends for a long time and whenever I kind of made a big business move or when I got my first patent I would I called my husband and my mom and called up fried and said Fred i got my first patent so he's been really good to me over the years and very special to me and it's so hard to get a patent I mean uh kudos to you for getting a patent because all the people you know everybody always says they're gonna take their lawsuit all the way to the supreme court no you're not they hear 100 cases a year you have several million filed and you're not gonna get a patent either and you got five patents I do I have two in the u.s um one in china one in japan and the eu just came in over the summer so that will be that's it's been amazing I mean it's uh I invented this bendable handle that is used for retraction for when you're brushing your teeth you can retract after implants or orthodontics and then uh it was really interesting some of the dentists that were using the product said oh can you make this autoclavable i'd love to use it for scanning and so my first big deal was last year when I signed an exclusive with carestream and invented a product called scanmate and that was using my patent around a bendable retractor uh that's not that's non-reflective and it's been really fun I mean at 50 I just turned 50 I never in a million years thought that I would say to you sit here with you today I’ve just been honored by looking up to you in my career and I’m just so excited to be here but um that led me I think armor dental really allowed me to learn about as a manufacturer as a patent or regulatory all the things you need to learn from now I feel it's kind of set me up to co-found this new company with this incredible team and so I mean talk about I mean that's all everybody's talking about I mean uh this is uh I mean we're in the middle of a pandemic and nobody can predict the future I mean anybody who's going to tell you what the stock market's going to do bonds the virus I mean you might they're just palm breeders yeah and they're palm readers on but um you know religion does you know predicts the future uh um and wall street does it with all their charts and when whenever I see them doing all their chart stuff I’m embarrassed for the science of business because I mean albert einstein told you there's no future so we don't know I mean I mean there's I mean there's only the present and I you know a lot of my friends um think that uh in a nine inning ball game we're in inning two and um and other dentists think that we're uh in seven eight or nine and uh you know who knows but so how do you see this fitting into the pandemic what what's your thoughts on this sure so first and foremost Clara was really invented and developed for to help you know really was humanity we wanted to help around the pandemic we um my business all of a sudden I was an entrepreneur you know building this company first year I was actually made money last year so going into 2020 was this big um exciting year and all of a sudden boom the all offices closed and has an opportunity as a business owner it was really scary and so Clara has been kind of our guiding light and um we developed it for the pandemic but there's really three areas that Fred and I really want to get across about Clara number one it really was developed for the pandemic and helping clinicians and their team be fully protected with this respirator um it has a cross ventilation and the mask that I can show you um on screen here so when you're breathing your inhale and then you're exhaling that that and it's patent-pending that has a cross-ventilation it has a clear mask and a voice port so you can actually see in here uh the patient can hear you speaking so this was designed for um for the pandemic but we're finding Howard and Fred you can chime in what's so interesting about Howard is what our we've been testing it now with over about a hundred dentists and doctors and nurses and hygienists um you know michelle strange and deb carrier all these incredible uh supportive people that they've been telling us their issues around breathing quality with the current masks that are available so not only is Clara designed for protection but we're really I think our biggest opportunity is really around the improving and radically changing how our professionals are breathing day to day not just coping so to answer your question I see this as a coveted product but secondarily I see it for really disrupting um you know breathing and third our clinicians and dentistry are telling us we are you know we're doing laser procedures we're doing you know we're making dentures we need more protection around some of those hazards so I think there's kind of three tiers so this is definitely not a covered pitch it's more of a long-term solution to uh respiratory health huh that is exciting and I see you bobby stanley um on your board um she's a guest of the show she's an amazing person um yeah you gotta you gotta help the team um is Fred the weakest player on your team so think about how strong a team would have to be for that to be true though no it's uh it's one of those trust things um there's a lot of trust there so we don't really move a lot unless we say Fred what do you think of this so but bobby and Robert um we just shot Fred as you know we just shot an incredible video that's on our site um that you can see and they you know what I love about bobby and Robert as you know Howard they're not yes people even though they're an incredible people like they open up their doors to us we stayed with them Fred and I stayed at their house for four days we drank wine together and ate dinner together they opened up their entire office where that we worked with Clara and showed that all their staff and so but at the end of the day you'll see what Robert says in bobby on that testimonial and it's really telling because they're not yes people meaning they're not they don't just tell you what you want to hear and so bringing them on board as advisors to us was really critical because they're not just going to tell you what you want to hear they're going to tell you really what needs to be done and involve this product to be life-changing for everybody well um Fred I meant that seriously I mean the smartest business people in the world always want um to be the dumbest person in the room I mean why would you why would you want to hire people I mean seriously and that no less you know when I when I opened up my dental office I graduated uh may 11 1987 had opened September I felt bad because I was running all these help wanted ads for hygienist assistants whatever and I felt bad because I couldn't be honest an interview because I couldn't say wanted the oldest hygienist looking for a job in phoenix but all these young people would come and do the interview and I knew that and I ended up hiring I think her name was her name was sherry I think she had to be uh 55 or something like that but I hired older people that had been around the block of dentistry 30 years and made it so easy so is David Lipinski sherry your wife uh sherry is that David your uh husband or brother or husband that's a good story um he's my husband David Lipinski and um he is uh you know heading up this company he has uh 25 years in healthcare and life sciences and ai so like Fred Davis founded a company years ago sold it about 15 years ago and has been working for different companies over the last 15 years but really was kind of looking for his next big thing and he saw his wife you know building a company and he's like what when's it gonna be my when am I gonna find my next thing and so this was it so friend David and I are just so tickled about this because we all feel this is our special next big thing so he's on board um he's actually just in the other room uh so he says hello yeah and we keep finding situations where we realize how much impact that we can have with this certainly in the dental arena but in nursing homes you know a good friend of mine she tells me you know her dad was put in a nursing home and he has somewhat dementia at this point she hasn't seen him in four months because she can't go in and see him he's sitting and has no idea if they can't explain to him why his daughter doesn't show up every day he doesn't remember it this breaks my heart and all she needs is to put on a Clara and she'll be able to go in there not to mention in California 40 of the fatalities from covid are nursing home related so you know we look at we look at what we're doing is critical to get this mask out there which is why you know in the beginning of our august we're going to be shipping this thing we've been doing everything we can to get this model out to people because it's going to change how they function and work we're even we're talking to people who are you know they're the co2 buildup is having such an impact on their productivity we even talked to a dentist so she said I’ve never been depressed in my life and she said I started contemplating suicide out of the blue right she said and she said and then because she was had enough medical background she went like wait a minute I’m not a depressive person at all this is chemical and she realized it but imagine if you didn't know that and you were just it just sort of overwhelmed you so and Howard she only knew she was in trouble she didn't even feel it as Fred was saying one day she's practices in Petaluma California and one day at the end of the day her dental assistant was taking her pulse and she said oh let me take my pulse and it was 150 and so she couldn't believe it she went to another room took it again it was 150 went home to her husband after a couple glasses of wine about four hours later it was she was calm but then a few days later she felt this wave of depression she's now fine but there's something about you know that oxygen that co2 buildup that we're trying to solve for and understanding that more with Clara so yeah so you you've um you guys have both been around the block a hundred times is this a highly regulated industry I mean are I mean because they're because the health care community is as serious as a heart attack I mean they're going to want to know how is this compared to an n95 I mean level you know 3m you know all this stuff so tell us tell us about that side of the journey how did you um so you designed the idea and then you made a prototype well we go through stages of regulatory with the fda because of covid they have emergency authorized use for masks so we are releasing it as a mask we will we once we have production models we go through niosh certification niash will only certify when you have the actual production models we have started the whole 510 uh k process or whatever it is 5 10 something with the fda but we're that's a longer process but we're allowed to offer the mask to practices and dentists can wear them we'll eventually have full fda approval and niosh approval but those are stages right now can you make any claims for it oh yeah we're doing a whole bunch of testing on co2 and oxygen sensing and all that so we are going to be issuing that on our website uh of all those types of results because you know at the end of the day the fda has approved us to launch as a mask however but we're also in parallel by about early October we're going to get the niosh approval so we can sell to uh hospitals dental offices we can sell to and we encourage to uh to dental offices to do fit testing like you would a respirator but right now we were authorized to sell it as a mask but in early October we can talk about it as a respirator so we're following every regulatory step we already have a reviewer at the fda that has been assigned to us and Dr Kiara Moore so we're really you know our head of regulatory has been in regulatory for 30 years so we're following every single step to get it to market so whose idea was it so it really originated with our engineer one of our co-founders uh Lisa Fitzgerald her husband as I mentioned had can't has cancer and so she was worried when kobit was starting to hit you know I’m gonna let me invent something and so it was really a very early she was using a cpap mask and this kind of box this plastic and I and I looked at it and I said well that's a that's a flipping great idea and so as an entrepreneur we took it to the next level so the mask you just saw Howard here this is our the inside of it is a silicone gasket that really allows that to get that great seal and fit testing they have this really interesting ratchet system right here you can hear me uh moving it so when you when you put on your face you have a seal but then you can customize the fit so it really uh seals them nicely by just moving these like this and then the voice port as I said you can talk to your patients cross ventilation but then after that Howard you saw on our website the wearable unit is right here this is clear Clara we really wanted to this is what you wear it's five ounces it's a it's a um let me open it here for you um one second so this is just so you know this is naturally that great was that was that um girl who wanted to make it who had the need for it was that Lisa Fitzgerald yes at least Fitzgerald is our head of engineering so she um yep she invented it she engineered it and she assigned the patent to our company so um this is I just wanted to show you the inside of it Howard is really the beauty of it this is a hepa filter right there and so once a month the user changes that so this attaches it's only five ounces this attaches it's not a paper I want you to understand that it's not something that has any battery it's not heavy it's only five ounces so this attaches to your arm to the back here or to your belt clip and then you have the hose which is only one inch hose that is connected here and the hose as many of our clinicians have said is really your lifeline that is really why it the breathing experience is so different from other masks so um so Lisa is the one who uh needed this and she made a prototype when you're making it um who do you who do you think is your uh target market I mean who's your most target market um in dentistry especially in dentistry so in dentistry gosh I would say Fred you can chime in here this is what's special about it whenever we show this to a clinician there's never a time where a clinician says you know what I’m gonna I’m gonna try one Howard why don't you send me one they say it just happened earlier today on our website send me ten send me ten who I wanna get any anybody that's chair side they're saying they want it and you know and I also look at it from a marketing standpoint Howard the design of this device is it cleans the air that you breathe in and the air that you breathe out so the patient is protected too so now the practice can say to the to the patient we have a mask with an airtight seal and hepa filters cleaning the air that we exhale into the room as well as what we inhale so you're more protected here than home pretty much um and that's that to me is I think we're going to see this this shift we're already seeing it actually this is one of the things I wanted to talk a little bit about is we're seeing a migration of patients towards practice who are doing safety protocols that make them feel like the practice is safe some they're leaving their dentist because they go like this this place doesn't feel safe at all and they start looking for dentists who are who are going to a higher level of systems and protocols for patient safety and cleanliness and sanitization so I see this as a value in attracting patients and keeping dental practices from ever having to close again ever for any regulatory body state or federal saying dentists should close not is paying for available now yeah uh I love that you asked that question so um if you the Clara with the dual exhaust if you want to protect yourself and the patient is 429 for at retail 429. 429. yeah and then compared yep and um and then the single exhaust if you're just wearing one hose and you're protecting just yourself that's 329 Howard um compared to a pepper and all those there's more like a thousand or 1200 uh dollars so we're really we're trying to make this affordable for the entire dental team as a former dental assistant I really want to take care of the dental team in addition of course to the dentist um the other thing that you asked about was really critical and I’m glad you asked so we have a dso we can't mention them but they're uh you know 120 uh office uh yes we want to let's talk before we talk about that let's talk about how long the product lasts because the mass lasts at least a year the dentist may want to have a backup on hand the filter case would last several years and the filters are changed every month we just basically we recommend a subscription where everybody just changes their filters once a month right uh how much is the filter how much dollars apiece so 12 yeah so uh but and part of what we're seeing is we're not generating the massive amount of hazardous waste by this product because it is reusable you just wash it and reuse it day after day for free what do you think the average dentist is paying for ppe per person the substitute so here's a one-time cost of 429 but what do you what do you think the dentist is paying for uh well we've we heard a huge example which is a practice that that had a group practice with over 100 practices they brought their cfo in and they said look we're about to buy 500 000 of um claris from you so we wanted to see how that would offset the use of disposables so our conservative estimate is it'll save us in just the first year a million and a half dollars of ppe so he was gonna he's gonna buy on the deal was gonna buy 500 000 of um the Clara mask and he thought um it would save him one million and a half yeah in one year he said after he after we spent 500 he estimated around 1.5 conservatively and when we had lunch with him recently he said I think it's more like two to two five million so that was a big eye opener we've been talking a lot about the sustainability and not having to worry about ppe and not having ppe but about the biohazards for hospitals or dentistry and not having to buy masks oh and the shields over and over again um we think we're on to something with helping you know cut down on cost and all the throwaways into the landfill I mean that so for every dollar invested you'll save you you'll get your dollar back in three more I mean that's incredible yeah um so um has he started that uh test yet where he's gonna he's starting October 1st we're just we'll get our first shipments in like mid to late September and we're starting to ship to our distributors uh in about you know first week in October well congratulations but you so you guys uh you so the Clara dual port kit is the one you recommend for you yeah and the single port if you're a non-medical you may use the single port but anywhere where you want to protect the other person in the room and that's pretty much is all of healthcare uh you're going to want the dual if like for if we're going to be working with food processing plants as well if everybody on the line is wearing the single port everybody's protected right so but there's no patient except the cow who unfortunately showed up there um so uh but and the slaughterhouses are the slaughterhouses are you set a fourth of the cases are in nursing homes uh you know you're in wichita within uh mbpx on all those meat packing plants it's hell in there too right well yeah chicken and foster's farms closed here in California because of it just three times the percentage of deaths and like 368 positive cases it was like two-thirds of the workforce or some insane number yeah so we're reaching out to them as well because these are people at risk for to make a living at not a high wage but their employer needs to protect them yeah and that's another we have a pilot with a chicken uh plan up in pennsylvania starting in the next month and so they're really excited about you know protecting their employees and when they go home the idea is to have them take their claire's home they come right on the plant they have to have their mask right on in the car believe it or not so um I think to answer your question earlier I think dentistry is because of our contacts we chose as a company I said to my husband as he's leading this I said we only have 10 000 units available in September so we're like let's give this to dentistry we have 20 28 000 uh in October let's get our dealers all set up and then we'll start you know issuing the other units as we get into november december but dentistry was really because our heart is in dentistry we wanted to give this special product to the dealers and the dentists that are our friends of ours that we've known for so long and say listen we want to help you out and help your team out so are you going to choose a business model of selling direct right now it's on claramast.com but you said when this uh um you said that it's going to go to breathe easy breathe Clara leave clap r e a t h e c l a r a dot com yeah um are you what is your business model gonna be is it gonna be um selling direct on the websites or are you going to go it'll be a combination of the two there are distributors that that want it um but it's but we want uh dentists to be able to buy it directly we want uh some people on the street as well so some of the distributors have offered to say look we'll actually put we'll put our teams uh our you know our field representatives with Clara go walk right into the office with it on to be able to talk to the practice and say look this is a real solution here so it's going to be a combination of direct and using distributor relationships right but that that's not something they do though I mean usually I mean I mean look I mean you um we're down here talking to samir I mean look at the old day where uh they wanted to deal with Patterson who had an exclusive on the uh yeah they've uh they've outgrown the whole ex they've learned that they don't get exclusivity anymore which is interesting and I’m glad we wouldn't want to give it to them we would never give exclusivity to a single distributor uh any just because we don't want to constrain access um we want this one team member who wants it you mean Patterson learned it Patterson learned not to do an exclusive I think they all did I think I think they all learned that they can't pull that off as easily as they used to yeah and I noticed I noticed with uh with a deck chairs you know he had an exclusive with uh Patterson and it wasn't until uh um ken and joanne passed on uh that they with that but so then the other side of that um usually they want an exclusive um are you also going to sell it on amazon I mean instead of just your website will it be on a jeff bezos site yeah I think we're going to hold off on that right now I think that um amazon I wanted to add something important I think that we all know the dealers really well many of my you know the executives at the dealers um we are you know we want to hold hand hold this a little bit tight Howard and learn from it a bit and so it's important to us to listen to the customers and we also have only a very certain amount of units available uh in September and October so we've told all the dealers like you know how many do you want we want to launch with you but we really want to work with you we don't want to just have this in a catalog we want to you know we want to give this to as many offices we can and explain the special features of this product versus just kind of you know selling it in a box so we don't want we don't want 20 000 units sitting in a warehouse right you know so where were they made at um that's a great question so we're really proud of that everything is made in massachusetts so even the hepa filter is made in massachusetts and um and you can't tell me the hundred uh the dsl with a hundred locations that's gonna do that or checking it out I don't know I guess we could I don't know I mean I don't know Fred you're the more the expert on that oh come on Fred we're the only three people listening to the show I can nobody downloads this podcast at all I feel very safe revealing off the record information uh so who is that uh it's elite yeah I’m saying it right once we can only say it once we'll bleep it out so dr Adam burn I don't think he'd mind us saying this he um you know saw Claire early dr Jim Arnold uh is a also one of our advisors uh within the company and he uh he knows Adam he introduced us a couple months ago and we've been uh you know talking to him on zoom calls and Fred and I flew in to see him in Utah where he lives and um and he really believes in this respiratory issue with his offices so he's wanting he's rolling the pilot out um he's our first rollout uh coming up right when he gets it in late September yeah the first units off the line go straight to him so yeah because you know there's you know we've all been in this game a very long time and um it has to make dollars and cents because um the dentist and you know if it doesn't make sense I mean they learned this all along I mean 95 percent of the dentists take delta and they tell you your fee so 95 of dentists are on a ppo and if um and I always tell people that if they have a an idea that makes economical sense then go to the go to the dsos because they got a scale of management that's full-time accounting they know their numbers they have their own software um but dent but if it's uh if it's you know the five fingers is a faster easier higher quality uh lower cost uh smaller um you know but if it's um but if it's higher cost and it violates you know three or four of the fingers then then you got to go uh sell it to the uh you know the special no you're right because we and we I certainly have and as well as Cherie relationships with the various dsos and we're and they are they make decisions very differently um so which is good they run the numbers like just being able to say look I’m going to save a million and a half dollars on disposable this is a no-brainer for me and my people the other there's another big thing there's a wave of litigation workman's comp things that are that are coming your way you heard about the law in new York right that that basically anybody who comes down with covid they're actually going to say it originated at their workplace because they want to put it onto workman's comp as an expense there are going to be people who have co2 impairment issues that are going to blame the practice for it and we're we want to get ahead of that before it turns into that you know well I mean that's just that's just something you say because um you know every election I always you know arrive at the same place I’m sitting right here I’ve been voting libertarian since you know in 1980 because the republic you know you're never supposed to talk about religion sex politics violence and I’m not going there in any of that I’m just talking about what you just said about the lawyers um the united states you know it's a two-party binary star from Abraham Lincoln to today that it's the same trajectory to separate that one robbed the bank and one drove to get away here there's no difference between this binary star they're all in the same line and it's all ran by the one million attorneys who charge out one trillion dollars a year and what they did so geniusly while the physicians were getting in bed with the government with medicare in 1963 the lawyers took over the entire government I mean the congress the senate the supreme court it's the legal class and they could stop all this carnage right now and go pass a law that all these businesses will not have any liability issues but they have to feed their base and their base is 1 million attorneys and there's also 1 million mds and this and the 1 million mds and the 50 000 dos and 150 000 general dentists we've always taken a back seat to the 1 million attorneys they run the whole country and they've ran it into the ground I mean they have completely you know so um I really thought that during a pandemic they'd come together and write off the liability stuff but no they can't I mean of congress what percent of members are going to trample off the artery yeah they got to feed their members and they have been feeding their members at the expense of the american consumer and I just think it's hilarious when one side thinks their team is better than the other side I mean you see a car going off a cliff you really care who's sitting behind the driver wheel I mean they're just the same uh they're all the same milk yeah but um do you think they're going to um they'll pass blanket legislation to protect uh liability for uh I think every state's going to approach this differently this is what we're seeing is that what they should be doing in a lot of states are going to figure out is that they have to start protecting these small businesses from litigation and the workman's comp funds you know you can't have three or four workman's comp claims against you in a single year as a small business your premium will double the next year you know so uh they're gonna have to and of course the idea that you can say where somebody caught covid you know half of the transmission being from somebody asymptomatic how can you say that but so you've got to you've got to protect the business somebody's got to step up eventually and protect the business people here well we had we had a case um Howard it was at one of our customers that has ordered Clara uh tell us that one of her um staff had covid and they managed it they it you know very uh diligently and they found out that it was um they changed it back to her husband who got you went to the grocery store so um you know the thought of these legislation as you mentioned Howard passing I can't I just think you're not going to catch it yeah of course people could catch it at work but most likely you're catching it other places and bringing it into work so I just think that it's almost silly just to pass something like that wow if you can take the price of ppe from four dollars to one I mean is it faster is it easier is it higher quality is a lower cost if you can take the price of ppe from four dollars to one this will be a home run yeah well it's and that's what we do we save you three to one on cost we are more comfortable we are giving you a clear image of the person talking I mean imagine trying to present a case an eight or ten million dollar restorative case with a full mask on um you know versus Clara where you can actually see the dentist's face while they're talking to you yeah that's a good point because benko just to throw out another a little secret also for you Howard um benko was launching Clara and um you know other dealers are but Claire but benko were we um you know were uh launching with them first um not as an exclusive but uh we had lunch with or breakfast with chuck cohen a couple days ago because he's right close to me uh where we live in boston he's out here for the sun you know for um visiting his family so we we're so excited about them and they're really committed to this or they're putting some you know really great attention to all the things that we're talking about with co with this product not just covet but long-term sustainability and the cost savings that Fred you're talking about so um we're excited about working with people that that want to take to this level um yeah and again seeing it past coven and chuck cohen I want to remind you that um to this day he's the only person when I’ve been reading the harvard business review to run across his article I mean it was like I was like didn't even surprise me I always said chuck and rick I mean they're the two smartest boys on the block in dentistry my god they are so smart and they I love the way they think because when they um when something comes up and they're not sure um and it's made anywhere around the world they jump on the airplane especially rick I bet rick has flown more miles than me and Fred combined and we've lived in airplanes we lived our whole life in airplanes yeah the coen brothers are unbelievable so I want you to go back to something else there he is yeah that was that was shocking it was the first time they already want to go forward but it was so it was so special for me to hand deliver it a couple days ago and he just was like this is amazing so it was fun to get a photo of it I want you to talk about my job is to try to estimate what my homies are thinking while they're listening to this and um so go over co2 contamination they because they think of the ppe to block out this coronaviruses respiratory virus and now you're throwing out uh molecules our co2 so talk about co2 contamination and why do you think any of the dentists listen to this right now um thinks about co2 there's actually there's years of research on n95s and co2 buildup within the mask and the effects of it um and it's and now what we're actually seeing that anecdotally in aggregate the response from team members who are just going you know I’m exhausted at the end of the day and I feel like I feel like I’ve been working in a coal mine I’m so exhausted or I’ve had this headache behind my eye the whole day um and I haven't yet talked to a clinician you know and I’m talking to a lot of people now a lot of dentist friends of mine about Clara every one of them is saying this wearing this mask is changing my day all I think about is this mask the entire time it's on and at the end of the day I am I am impaired right I am I and it's because the mask does not exhaust it's you're forced to breathe your own co2 over and over again it's almost like you're treating an anxiety attack for eight hours that's great that's a very good you know um and so what we know and we're going to be testing with co2 sensors inside our mask is that our mask clears out with every single breath there is no co2 buildup I’ve worn this thing for 10 hours straight I’ve worn it from flying from raleigh all the way to la with a layover in charlotte never took it off except to eat her drink never worried about it sheree took a video of me sleeping for three and a half hours trying to find it I just fell right asleep on the on the plane wearing it it's you stop thinking that you have it on look there's Fred dozing with the man um that this this is going to this you what happens is our bodies powers the clinicians power through their day they their the hormones take over the adrenaline takes over because that co2 concentration it creates a vasovagal response that is fight or flight so what the body's got chemicals to get through that so they get through their day not going I can't breathe so much is I feel exhausted because their bodies in high gear their heart rate's running like a hummingbird and that's not sustainable and adding to that one thing Fred and Howard what's interesting you know one of our dr isaac towel one of my dear friends and dr scott gans and they're telling us these stories about when they when they're you know their staff is a little bit irritable or hot or have headaches or they're kind of foggy you know and they're just acting differently and um and it it's really interesting to hear the feedback over the last four months now of what's currently out there and what's coming uh with Clara so we're to answer your question how were to add what Fred saying you know there are already a lot of studies with those n95s we want to make it better we feel our patent-pending uh respirator will have that cross-ventilation and then then you can really breathe and add in what Fred said lastly about it is I also flew recently after I was Arizona I was out there with Freda with Sam and I flew home and it was the first time i'd worn it for five hours straight and it was really interesting because I got the plane I got settled in and I it was it was the first time that I was I was taking deep breaths I think we get really used to wearing those masks and we kind of hold back a little bit and taking that really deep breath so it was the first time that I felt wow that's it meaning I felt really protected but I also could breathe so much better and I thought I thought you know it's just is it a very different experience than what you what you have regularly with the uh the n95s or the level threes I wonder I’m gonna I’m going to your psychographics you and Fred are you guys worried personally of catching covet 19 or do you do you fear it do you think um what are your thoughts on that sure go ahead and get started yeah I have flown a lot because of promoting this but I feel completely safe with the mask i'll also I also wear protective eyewear um but I and I’m and I wear a mask everywhere in in my neighborhood that there's there isn't a lot of people going the masks are stupid right they're you know you don't have a right to tell me uh they protect themselves and they protect each other and you know the supermarkets you have to wear them and stuff like that uh so I believe I could catch it but I but I don't think you can really catch it much outdoors uh and as long as you've got some distance on you but I’ve had four covid tests antigen tests and two uh antibody tests all negative I keep hoping that I had it and beat it but I wanted to ask you live in los Angeles right yeah where do you actually live Fred we're in los Angeles in an area called playa vista okay play visa yeah it's a it's a little but do you but back to you if you did catch it do you think uh are you are you worried or do you just think it'd be a like a no I don't want to catch it because I know i'll kill it because I’m i got a healthy immune system and a strong body and a strong will and I eat really well and I take care of myself um but I don't I believe that there are weird side effect after effects of this particular virus that I’m not interested in so I don't I don't I don't want to I don't want to get it and get over it I don't want to be part of the herd immunity process if I can help it i'll let the herd immune themselves let the college kids do their hurt immunity right and i'll and i'll tag along behind not getting it because I you know the nerve damage and stuff like that and lung damage not interested yeah and I and adding to that I almost feel like saying ditto because it's very similar to what I feel um I have three children my husband and I we wear our masks we wash our hands we do the right hygiene things um I’m not really you know I’m healthy like Fred I I’m not I’m not really concerned about getting it because um you know I take the right precautions um but I do worry about um you know you just letting your guard down sometimes Howard when my friend never traveling together we were driving all over say pennsylvania new jersey we were shopping in rest stops and I remember there's a couple times where I went to go grab the door to open up to say go into a starbucks and I was like oh and I pushed it open because I just think it's easy to kind of forget about those things so I don't want to catch it either um am I really concerned about catching it um personally not my you know I’m worried a little about my kids who to go to college uh right now but other than that I think if we take the right precautions we should be okay um that's my personal opinion um so where do you think the dental market is right now I mean we have a great um economist um at the ada who's saying we're about to 71 back um where do you think we're at right now and um what advice would you have for uh dental offices well I mean some of that you know big numbers are offering a big lie right 70 percent back I know dentists that are back 110 of revenue and I know dentists that are thinking of walking right because they are they are at 40 50 percent of revenue and they don't know what to do about it um and there also there's a lot of dentists looking at what they're calling the big dip which is the hygiene scheduling is dropping off in September and October I’m not seeing that with every practice I’m seeing it as the great migration I’m seeing it as patients moving from practices that they don't feel safe going to moving to a practice that they do feel safe going to there's the dentist I’m talking to uh they're saying my I am getting new patient calls every day and the majority of them are record transfers okay they are not oh I don't have a dentist like you know I ran 800 dentists forever I know that most of the calls are people I don't have a dentist I need to find a dentist these are people changing dentists so I think that uh the strategy for dentists going forward is like you better create a safe place for your team to work and a safe place for your patients to come and you need to inform them of what you're doing the protocols that you're using to protect them that you're going above and beyond even what the regulatory bodies are telling them to do so that they're protected and you'll have you'll have a thriving practice because this is a great opportunity Howard this is our chance to educate people that oral health and overall health are connected right we know it we've been trying to get people to believe it but now all we've got against covid is our immune system and dentistry is integral to that we if we can drive that message out practice by practice through our patient basis dentistry will thrive and we'll help people be healthier so anyway when you have people that are um back to 110 120 I know uh rick kirschner at comfort dental they're higher than they were when they started um what variables do you see I mean what is associated with this uh I’m back to where I was versus I want to walk what are you seeing any variables is it regional is it the age of patients is that do you see any uh connection correlating between those two variables you know it's I I’m having trouble finding a correlation because the areas that I’m looking at are so different you know it'll be a fairly almost a rural pennsylvania town and versus you know uh a high-end California neighborhood like sonoma um you know that that people are people there's enough people who have said I gotta get to the dentist and also I think there's a shift in spending people are rethinking how they spend money oh yeah because they can't travel right the average the average family spends 10 15 20 000 on vacations a year um they're going what would be a better investment and if we tell them or they go like you know I put off veneers or I put off these implants I might as well do them now I can't do anything else I’m sitting at home anyway I think it's all over the I think if you're offering the right services I have dentists to say they're doing a staggering amount of invisalign right now because people are going what the hell am I straightening my teeth I’m not in public anyway you can't go to a restaurant I will add to that um about you know the kind of feel out there when I’m talking to some of these clinicians these offices there's that fear of course that yes or busier um as Fred you're saying some are still you know rethinking I’m not back and maybe i'll sell or retire um but there's that constant even if you are busy there's that that that little back in your shoulder like what if what if am I going to be shut down am I going to have to lay off my staff I think the mental state of these clinicians that I’ve had to lay off their staff like the stan lee's and or not lead them up but you know obviously either you know continue to pay them or furlough them that's emotionally draining so I think that we have to remember that about our clinicians that that they've gone through things here they were out of work for months and months and now we're going into this fall and what if what if they shut down again what if they dip in that and their services so I think that there's a lot of that that that very awkward feeling of that and big ambiguity of how to plan I think that we're in a really weird space Howard where we're just not sure so I think that I think that one thing I’m really enjoying is seeing a lot of the collaboration these zoom calls and checking in on I know the Stanley’s are right now at the koi center in seattle I like hearing that people are getting out there and seeing their peeps because we have to do that and go forward in my opinion yeah and when I was uh podcasting the president ada um there and they've shifted because their biggest crisis now is uh suicide yeah there is a threat on dental towns a mile long I mean and some of the people that are doing it are just like you never would have guessed married kids everything fine it was just the last straw um or do you um but again if this is a business thing if this truly if you truly spend a dollar at 500 000 on mass for 100 um for um 100 offices and you save a million dollars then all the dsls are gonna do it the dsos are better business operators um do you um have you guys noticed any dsos uh in trouble or not back to 100 how are the dsos doing I mean there's so many of them that uh I mean the big ones you know the name brand I think I you know Steve Thorne at pacific you know he's a very smart businessman and he was he was on top of this very quickly and he created protocols for his teams very quickly to protect them and uh and to protect the ebitda of the businesses he's a smart numbers guy too and he and he knows that it's about you know preserving your profits at this point and but also so I think that they were smart enough in in terms of furloughing people laying people off getting the ppp money um for their businesses that that they're gonna power their way through it because they're running the numbers that tell them where they have to focus uh while at the same time doing their darndest to take care of talk macro to me I mean um again we both agree it's a horrific term to say the united states of america because you can't manage it's kind of like running your business I mean the accountants give you three statements they give you a p l statement income but that's designed for a third party tax collector unless you're publicly traded sec they give you a balance sheet your asset balances with your liabilities equities but that's only if you're getting capital or whatever divorce or whatever um but you need a statement of cash flow to manage your office and um us numbers um aren't really apply to running an office I mean you wouldn't mix germany with uh greece and all this stuff like that but there's really kind of we've talked about this for 30 years there's kind of two americas half the mayor half of america um buys on price half by uh value added I mean there's so many people that are only going to go to the dentist because they got their business upsides that the government subsidize it and we know we've lost 40 million jobs since the pandemic and 30 million of them had dental insurance and I talked to the insurance ceos and I mean 30 million americans lost a permanent job with dental insurance that to say that this is not going to wash ashore to 150 000 dental offices is insane um how do you see I mean we got a pandemic we have um an economic um a huge economic problem and I never thought in my life I would see the united states contract like that but what would you um what would you be telling dentists who are very rational people I mean most dentists don't have enough personality to become an accountant and they're you know they're looking at the numbers and they're like man 30 million people lost their dental benefits the economy's contracted whether it's australia canada uk it's the largest contraction since the great depression um what can you what would you be telling those guys right now to do and I’m asking you because you've been zig zagging across the country for 30 years I mean you see this um economy at 30 000 feet what would you be telling them I would I would be saying it's not about how much your gross how much your gross revenue it is what's your profit what do you what procedures are you doing that are profitable enough and how are you making sure that you have that cash flow they've been in a bull market of dentistry for 10 years right and they've it's covered a host of mistakes that they've been able to make in their practice you can't do it anymore you have to be pragmatic about what you're earning you have to it's not the p l it's deeper in the p l like what are we doing per hour and what's it costing me to do it per hour um and am I profitable because ca you will need a reserve of cash because anything could happen I mean as you say you know they were talking about if this thing lasted two months the economic impact would it would take 18 months to recover from we're six months in right okay eight nine years so who knows but as long as you operate as an essential service as long as you function that way and you know we've got to get diligent about making sure that this is dentistry is valued for how valuable it is okay and I i'd add to that um you know I think you know I talked to some of my dear friends that um that are dentists and hygienists and assistants and I say you know it's kind of similar to simplify it in a way that how I talk to my kids like focus on the things that you can focus on and improve on and if you if you don't you'll be in this big vortex tunnel and give up right so I think the two things I would focus on are the patients that you have that are coming in that door and how you're treating them and how you are thinking about them even outside of the office how what are they dealing with what how are they when they leave your office how are they feeling at home what are they going through and really talking to them and listening to what they're dealing with and showing that um and having that empathy the other thing Howard and Fred I would say is you know your base like who are your people who are your referrals how are they doing um and so you know if it's your implant um implant coordinator or your hygienist that deals with that or what have you I think it's important that that that we all have each other's back and so in my if I had an office or of three two or three offices or what have you I would I would kind of spread my wings a bit and grab them all in and know that and show them that that that they are my people and we are going to get through this I mean I know it sounds like cliche we're all in this together but if I was a clinician working every day um I would I would be taking looking at my patients at home and I would looking at my referrals and seeing what I could do to service them yeah I mean if you if you go on to dental town and um and just type in mask I mean my god it's mass it's patient mask issues I mean it's just uh it's just a um it's every thread yeah I mean it's just amazing uh how big this issue is um any um any other advice uh besides is there anything you want to say about the mass I mean I can't believe we already went over an hour we've been talking for an hour um I will just add one thing um it's uh over here um we Deborah carrier that I think she's been on with you twice as nice uniforms um we are putting a lot of thought into Howard this adoption so you know we know with Clara this is um you know a radical change in breathing so the donning and doffing and how to use Clara how do you clean it and store it so we're putting a lot of thought into that when you open up like an apple box what goes into that so um we really want to um you know implement this product and have it adopted and accepted is really the most important inventing is easy to be quite frank it's really about gaining traction and getting that belief in your product that you are the real deal you are trying to change behaviors so just to tie off on that um this this this respirator or mask Clara is going to have all the types of donning and doffing all the videos of education we have some great respiratory experts and infection control experts like michelle stranger working with us on the success so um I look forward to people coming to our site and really learning about we're trying to have an impact don't you agree Fred yes I mean I mean that's really we're trying to solve respiration on a long-term basis and team safety practitioner safety and patient safety uh and that and we're gonna dedicate ourselves to that we're you know and this conversation we had this conversation with spear and it was exactly this we said you know why wouldn't you want to you know don't you want to be at the forefront of respiratory health for this industry and kaleem said yeah why wouldn't we be right let's do it and I’ve and um maybe I where did the name Clara come from great question Howard um so my our engineer and designer she um not lisa who invented this product but we have a separate um industrial designer she we presented some names to us and in latin uh Clara in latin means bright so we wanted to it was really during the early days of covid where everyone wasn't right you know we weren't feeling bright and so we felt alexa siri now along came Clara so we it kind of stuck with us so we wanted to yeah breathing yeah clear green air clear air uh clarity of the mask that you can see you see the person's face I mean we're trying to solve this problem in a real way there's p plenty of people making plenty of mask solutions that are never going to give you an airtight fit that are never that are going to be hot they're going to fog up they're gonna you know dentists are telling me they're wearing n95s and their loops are fogging right it's like they say like how do I either gotta give up magnification or the n95 what do I do they try Clara on and they go like one dentist was like nothing else mattered except he could use his loops again right so it's there's we're covering so many different solutions in one that that we can't wait to get it out there and get it into practices because we think it's just going to make an enormous sea change in in how practices function going forward and we'd like to get you one Howard on of course complimentary um we'd love to send you one to try and you know get your feedback on it of course that's so important to us so we'd love to send you one um and uh yeah and what I do is I would I would uh um send an email to my I show it to the whole team in fact I’m gonna do that um as soon as I’m done to see which staff member is the most troubled by the mask it'd be great I love the uh the clat the uh latin name uh Clara that's uh great the uh meaning in latin uh clear Clara clear bright famous um I would I almost called dental town docer um because latin is the latin word for doctor just like uh um bible is just a latin word for book you know when someone says they read the bible that's just latin book yeah uh but um and then last but not least um uh since there's three sizes sitting here small medium and large how many sizes do you have on the mask sure so we have four so we have extra small uh dr yuson kim and other uh clinicians helped us realize we need an extra small medium and large one other thing Howard it was it's really um I can't I forgot to tell you this um that you know the sizing and the fit and that and get that fit testing uh passing that was really critical for us especially in hospitals and dental offices so bellas i'll give you a little scoop we are partnering with bellas um on uh they're creating the one of our the apps so when the clinicians purchase Clara they can go and they can take their facial measurements and then we can say okay Fred you're a medium and sheree you're small I mean so you it immediately tells you your size so if you're small or medium or large so bella's we'll make that partnership announcement uh quite soon but you can have a little scoop right now yeah and for the listeners who don't know what bellas is they do 3d measurements of your face uh and uh and it's done with an iphone 11 the 3d camera and the iphone 11. so it gives and they've scanned 200 000 facial images already so we're working with a base that allows us to fit are you talking about bellas health out of canadabellashealth.com trading on nasdaq you know b-e-l-l-u-s uh 3-d they're out of uh silicon valley and they came on the scene like early march and in dental they did they didn't deal with like philips respironics but you I’m sure you've seen them online uh Howard where they the clinician will take a facial scan and then they'll send it in and they'll get one of those they'll have a mask on and they'll have a little a frame that goes over that mask to make sure that mask is fitted so that's how they become really pop they're apple found uh people that work from apple founded the company and so uh we heard about them through uh just seeing them kind of become popular during covet and I have to tell you honestly they were inundated with mass companies and my husband we were on these calls with them and they really were like you know we we've been talking to mass companies we're not doing a deal meeting with other companies and they looked at Clara Fred you're on this call and they said when you want to do a deal and so we're really proud of that we haven't announced it yet but we're about to because they they're already with the um dental pro um right that's their product uh the bellas 3d dental pro provides a powerful and easy to use 3d face scanning solution yep yes exactly very nice um once again kids it's not what you know it's who you know this is the power of networking one of the things you young kids have to realize that you wouldn't have got a's in math calculus physics geometry trig I mean you wouldn't have got a's and all that stuff if you're out there hanging out with all the business students drinking till three in the morning when you end up being a dentist physician you're usually an introvert you're usually shy and that's all great but the power networking and i'll tell you that it just drives me crazy every time I go visit a dentist they're in a medical dental building there's eight dentists in there they've never gone to dinner or to the other person's house one time in their life and because they see them as competition and Fred and I can tell you a million times and then it's the um and it's the um vacations it's the um the rvs it's uh I can't fly I’m gonna uh right now the real estate uh north of phoenix is just exploding I mean uh prices I’ve seen the prices go up in a flagstaff 40 since the pandemic because people like well we're no longer going to go on vacation to all these places let's just get a cabin up north the rv place up there um I mean it's going crazy so people are there's going to be a new america and as far as working from home that was the trend that was going for a long time and I think all the pandemic did is just shoved it up the mountain um nobody I mean two out of three people that are working from home right now uh don't want to go back to the office so then where's all the restaurants that you'd eat out at lunch where's you know all that money um and the savings rates going up because they're not eating out they're not flying around they're not doing all these things in fact um I’m almost to the point now where I I’m considering learning how to camp um I’m uh and of course I would buy an rv because I I’m not dumb I know that everybody who says they love camping always takes a miniature house with them uh that has every single feature their house has but uh there's money to be made and um stay tough and just remember one thing if you're getting down um you know reach out for help and this is just the time to be your best and um you know during a pandemic is not the time uh to not give it at all I mean you remember how you studied so differently the night before an exam versus that same night a week before the exam I mean your it's exam night and it's exam night every day and this is you need to be at a hundred percent now because like Fred said um you know this is a highly regulated market um it takes eight years of college to get a dental license there's almost no competition you open up a hundred restaurants sixty percent of me bankrupt the first year dentist my god you could be a functional alcoholic eating vicodin and still make it for 40 years it's not competitive um but this is the time you need to be at your best and uh so see everything they've done from networking with their colleagues their peers they know everybody so I want you to um reach out and go to lunch with the dentist across the street with you um you know just um you know you always will you'll say oh I know these three desks yeah well they're specialists and they're making money off you and they're being nice to you because they make money off you the dentist across the hall from you isn't making money off you in fact he might be losing money off you so if he's your friend he might really be your friend so um you know go out there and give it your best thanks for always you guys for being so high energy the middle of the pandemic you could be home crying too you know you could be uh doing all that stuff but man you never slow down you step up to the game you suck it up buttercup and uh it was uh thanks so much sheree for giving me um this exclusive uh information on so many things and um best of luck to you thank you sir thank you okay and i'll see you on the other side of the pandemic that's right all right
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