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AUDIO - HSP #207 - Ronald Feinman
VIDEO - HSP #207 - Ronald Feinman
Guest Ronald Feinman talks about his 50 years in cosmetic dentistry doing everything from placing a crown on the tusk of an elephant to seeing new technologies and materials come and go.
Dr. Ronald A. Feinman is no stranger to the field of cosmetic dentistry. He is proud to be a Founding and Accredited Member of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry (AACD) and visiting Scientist at the Hebrew University School of Dental Medicine in Jerusalem, Israel. Dr. Feinman has also formerly held teaching positions at six universities, including one as a special lecturer in Esthetic Dentistry at Emory University School of Dentistry in Atlanta, Georgia. He has authored and co-authored two textbooks, published numerous articles, and lectured throughout the world on the subjects of esthetics, dental products and operative dentistry. As a Clinical Research Evaluator, as well as being on the board of Reality and Practical Periodontics and Aesthetics, Dr. Feinman has, throughout the years, been involved with the development and testing of many of the products which we use today. Dr. Feinman has been a spokesperson for cosmetic dentistry throughout the years, frequently appearing on CNN, WSB and WAGA, speaking as the resident expert on cosmetic dentistry and other dental topics.
Howard : It is beyond a huge honor for me to be interviewing the man, the legend, Ronald Feinman. You go by Ron or Ronald?
Ronald: Ron. Ron's good.
Howard : Ron's good but I never read anybody's bio but I have to read yours because I mean they're just, I mean you're amazing. Dr. Ronald A. Feinman is no stranger to the field of Cosmetic Dentistry. He is proud to be a founding and accredit member of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and Visiting Scientist at the Hebrew University School of Dental Medicine in Jerusalem, Israel. I just sent my mother there for a ten-day trip with her girlfriends and paid for it all. Oh, my God. She loved that. She never want to come back. She talks about that thing, I'm going to have to ... In fact, you're reminding me to send her back so I promised her I'd send her back and I need to call her out and say, "You want to go back there again with your girlfriends? She absolutely loved it.
Dr. Feinman has also formally held teaching positions at six universities including one special lecture and a study dentistry to Emery University School of Dentistry in Atlanta, Georgia. He's authored and co-authored two textbooks that and itself is beyond amazing. Published numerous articles, lectured through out the world on subjects of Aesthetics, Dental Products and Operative Dentistry, as a Clinical Research Evaluator as well as being in the Board of Reality and Practical Periodontics and Aesthetics. Dr. Feinman has throughout the years been involved in the development and testing of many the products which we use today which I wanted to talk to you about big time. Dr. Feinman is one of a spokesperson for Cosmetic Dentistry throughout the years on CNN, WSB, WAGA, speaking as an expert on Cosmetic and Dentistry and other topics. I'm telling you Ron seriously, I remember getting out of school in 1987 and started taking 300-500 hours of CE a year and earning my fellowship in [mastership 00:01:54]. I think I've seen you lecture a half dozen times. I mean, congratulations to just an amazing and outstanding career.
Ronald: Well, you're sweet. It scares me because I'm not really doing as much as I used to but then again my gal went away too so things slow up a little bit. You've been out there. I remember when we were doing stuff with Bill Dorfman on this stuff thirty years ago and Vegas is something like that. I don't do that anymore. I introduced my assistant to your son. Andres Sousa is with me. Andres is a dentist from Venezuela and he's been my right hand and my eyes to ten years. That's part of being going into my ... This is my fiftieth year of practicing dentistry to let you know that I do one day a week and he takes care of everything else. It makes dentistry a lot easier when you have somebody like that. I'm blessed and really blessed and blessed to hear you doing so well. I am reading the magazine every once in a while, I don't do as much as we're doing now. Things has become easier as I get older. Next few months, I'll be fifty years in dentistry, who the funk? I don't know.
Howard : Man, that is amazing. That is so amazing.
Ronald: Whatever you want to ask me, ask me if I [inaudible 00:03:33].
Howard : We'll get to cosmetics, materials, supplies also but I'm going to start with a question only you could really answer. What are you, seventy-five then if you've been practicing fifty years?
Ronald: [inaudible 00:03:45]
Howard : Yeah. I got out of twenty-four so that's why I figured your probably that age. Ron, you've seen dentistry for half a century and you know, there's always been ... I remember thirty years ago the capitation was going to ruin dentistry. I remember thirty years ago Orthodontic Center of America came out and all the orthodontists and staff they'd all be working at WallGreen, you know at a Dock in a Box Shop. How would say is the state of dentistry and where's it headed? Is it really headed towards all the Hartlands and Pacific. This big mega mergers like Sirona and Dentsply were getting bigger and bigger. Dentistry become just such a big business and dentists will be more like pharmacists are ... What do you think the health of the dental industry is today?
Ronald: I'll tell you that my history makes me feel that dentistry as a profession is fantastic. I've got Andre here who doesn't have his license, I talked him out of going into [move 00:05:04] for another $400,000 to get two years worth of foreign training because there's no way that in ten years can he make the $400,000 back. I said do what you want to do and he is an engineer and acoustical engineer and musician. He'll make a lot more money than a dentist. I don't think dentist can make the income that they thought they could in many, many years ago. I was thinking about what your going to say and I had to go back fifty years. What would I do now to start a practice? One of the things that I would say is start out with a mentor.
I would move into a city and that I would find whoever had been top in their field and stay on there over their shoulder and learn as much as I can and then find. It doesn't have to be cosmetic dentistry but if you want to be in cosmetic dentistry ... I remember about twenty years ago giving lecture in Ontario or somewhere in Canada and a dentist comes over to me he says, "You won't believe me. You see I've been in practice for two years, I have six offices." I say, "What do you mean six offices?" He says, "Yeah." He says, "You know what I do? Is I give away [blinking 00:06:29] for free." I thought that was terrific. He's a guy that now has six dentists who were working for him and he's been in practicing two years.
Those are the things that you have to go on. You have to stay with good companies. You have to get great laboratories. I'm telling you about myself, I mean I'm doing mostly crown and bridge. I've been doing mostly crown and bridge over my life. I want to tell you, I've been doing veneers as you know since the beginning. I have not seen a failed case yet. I've got patients who's [walking 00:07:08] around for 35 years with pores and veneers and they're dead 35 years ago, it's still out there. I had good laboratory and good technique and that's what a young kid has to do. They had to look at the techniques and use good products so I stick with some products. You want to hear some products?
Howard : I do and I want to hear the list that you said you've got to stick with good companies and good labs so what are the good companies and their products and what are the good labs and their products and their technicians?
Ronald: All right. Have you been to [Wanauak 00:07:47]?
Howard : I've been to where? Oh, 3M?
Howard : Yeah.
Ronald: To the [Wanauak 00:07:53], you've been there.
Howard : Yeah.
Ronald: In '74 I was living there.
Howard : Tell the listeners what that is? That's 3Ms place for ..
Ronald: Right. 3M has 600 acres in Northern Minnesota and I forgot who was leading the conference. They picked out 20 dentists a year to go to this conference. Now, this is a conference that's out with three legs in golf range and shooting range and everything. I of course went to the headquarters which is in Minnesota. We sat there for two days looking at all their research. They've got more stuff and reserve and patented that they could ever use than you'll ever see. Then we went up to [wanauak 00:08:54]. In [wanauak 00:08:55], we have to get to a city. We want [inaudible 00:09:00] a bus that was fully loaded with booze and went to the airport and they had ten G5s lined up in their fleet and four at a time got on these private jets and we flew up for 20 minutes up to [wanauak 00:09:15]. We got off the plane, got on a bus. I didn't know where I was going. I had no idea what this ... Oh. Richard Simonson was ahead of that. You know Richard?
Howard : Absolutely.
Ronald: I got off the plane, I'm walking up to main headquarters and there's a guy cutting the bushes next to the sidewalk. He looks at me he said, "Hey, Dr. Feinman. Hey, how are you doing?" I thought it was my brother. I don't know who he was. Well, they train this people to know who you are, to know what your booze is, to know what you enjoy. That was six days of fantastic things but the best thing in that trip was they brought out [Reliacs 00:09:59]. Now, I had used zinc phosphate cement and all sorts of various looting agents until I started to use [Reliacs 00:10:10], as a resin glass ionomer. I was using glass ionomer then but every once in a while, I would have a tooth that will blow up or I'll have it debond. In 25 years, I've not had any teeth that absceded, crowns that absceded to blow up on in. I have to get an [orthodontics 00:10:30] It maybe technique, but I want to tell you it's how we see those crowns, what kind of crowns we use. That was the best part in [wanauak 00:10:42], besides getting good fishing and seeing some great entertainment. It was the relax and 3M. 3M is a great product. I mean it works well. What's my other favorite company? [crosstalk 00:10:56]
Howard : I want to ask you a question? Who was the role little short lady who was the lead research on that? Do you remember her name?
Ronald: I don't remember.
Howard : Semetra ...
Ronald: I don't remember names anymore.
Howard : I think it was Semetra.
Ronald: I don't remember.
Howard : You know why I'm so familiar with her? My sister, my older sister Mary Kay who's now Sister Anne who's in a convent up the street and to go visit her to make that a tax right off, I have to go spend four hours and one minute of business so I would either go to 3M or Patterson and spend four hours and one minute at 3M's research center where I go sit in the office with the President Pete [Fourchette 00:11:39] and that 3M was just amazing. Those research people in white lab coats and PhD's were so amazingly, brilliantly genius. It's amazing. What did you think of 3M buying us this on years back? What did you think of that merger and acquisition?
Ronald: 3M is going to keep them straight. They're going to have products that overlap that may not ... You know, if I find a product that works I stay with it. I mean, I've developed a bunch of products and my packs have run out, I've around grown them and still, that was a part of dentistry to me to be able to bring in polyvinyl from diskettes that was mine and what other pads I have on brasseler, depth cutters and stuff, that's what young dentist need to do. If they find a product or tool that works for them, they need to work out and develop it and take it to the companies and let them do their [level 00:12:48]. It's hard to do these days but if you've got some good ideas, they want it.
Howard : You know Mike Ditolla who's now the Dental Director of Sirona Dentsply.
Howard : He was saying if three force of all lab technicians say, "They didn't give me enough reduction on this prep, three out of four times the lab mending it in a production. Why do you think [Depp Bros 00:13:10] never take off? I mean, why do you dentists continue to eye ball it when every lab men will say, "Three out of four times you don't give me enough room?"
Ronald: It depends on what you're talking about. With the veneers, we knew that we had to or felt that we had take off the half millimeter enamel. Now, the average thickness of the enamel in certain area is 1.2mm. We develop depth cutters that would take off that amount then we wipe off those little [grooves 00:13:44]. Now we knew we had enough room for the veneers and the laboratories don't criticize for that. Now with crown and bridges at the story. You know, when we went to school before you went to school and I went to school, they had a round diamond, a number four round diamond and that was your depth cutter, take it off. There shouldn't be any problems with that. I will tell you something. I'm going to give you another golden rule that I really never do. I was brought up always with a high end dentistry. High end then, laboratory cost were incredible and they still are today.
They had ... You're talking about $400-$500 of crown for the expertise "for the laboratory." You go to Da Vinci, go to Laura Kelly, go to [Pink of Sadar 00:14:40]. You're going to have beautiful, beautiful porcelain that works. I have found the laboratory and I am willing to share with you. I get my porcelain, my zircon crowns less than $82, maybe $90 per unit. In ten years in using this laboratory, I am not kidding. I have not had and Andre to tell you, I have not had to adjust contact, occlusion and fit. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of crowns, color ... I do the same thing I do everywhere else but this laboratory's incredible. I have a feeling that they do it in Florida, they do it in China. It doesn't make any difference in me. I like Chinese food but it comes back on time and then fits. It fits. It's incredible. What do you think Andre?
Andres: That's right.
Ronald: I mean, I'm not ...
Howard : What's the name of the lab? What's the W dot ...
Ronald: ... I don't know if I can divulge it to you. It's DDS down in Florida.
Howard : DDS? What's your www.DDS what?
Howard : DDS absolutely?
Andres: Lab solutions.
Howard : Lab solutions. There's a Catholic boy coming out of me and saying absolution.
Ronald: That's all right.
Howard : DDS Lab ...
Ronald: Lab Solutions.
Howard : Lab Solutions. I got it here with the with the w. Do you know the owner?
Ronald: I don't know them. I really don't.
Howard : I thought you knew everyone?
Ronald: Well, I rather stay away from them. I mean, I want to be just a client. I mean, I don't ask them. We always give them good photographs of before, after preparation. We always know that our tissue is in great shape. I haven't had to use the retraction cord in 15 years. I don't need it. I want that tissue to be clean and healthy. You take the little laser on your tissue or you just use ... If you have bleeding, there's nothing better than Ultradent's viscous gel. The hemostatic agent that you use, to me that Ultradent's material is the best post preparation material.
Howard : You know, I can remember 30 years ago when I met Dan Fisher and he actually demo that by cutting in his own forearm making it bleed.
Ronald: Hey, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now listen. Often in Montana, Dan and I would do a course together and we had ten dentists lined up on the table sitting and waiting to watch and he always use an IV and bleed himself to use his own blood. He missed this time, he scoured everybody with his blood. They scrambled as if there's a bomb in the place like there was aids in it around. I never stand in there ... You ask Dan, he remember that.
Howard : That is hilarious. That guy is so passion. How old do you think Dan is now?
Ronald: Dan's ... How many child? He's got 15 children and he ... I don't know.
Howard : He has more energy than anyone I know. I remember like I ran into McClone and you know, it's a five hour flight from Phoenix to New York, nine to Germany. I got there I'm almost dead and he flown in like 1 o'clock in the morning. He had more energy at 6am. The guy has just unbelievable energy.
Ronald: Still going and he's got a great message and there is not a bad product from Ultradent. Any product that they have, I will bet on it. They're composite. They have a new line out that's fast than anything out there. They work very, very well. I mean, Dan's fantastic. I think my [inaudible 00:18:58]
Howard : Warren Buffett always says that he won't buy a company unless CEO has high intelligence, high energy and high integrity and Dan Fisher has all of those in spades and so do you. I mean, 75 years old, had been practicing for 50 years. I think you are a legend.
Ronald: How do I pay my bills? One day is enough, that's all I need. My message is, I think the average dentist who's on his own has got to be talking about being ... We'll talk about that. He sucked in with the high laboratory fees. Now, Dan met [Almani 00:19:40] and Laura Kelley. I kind of like hearing me say this but you know, if you've got it charged at $500 of laboratory fee, you've got to triple that to make any income in your office. If you can get your laboratory fees then and get a quality product, that's what you need to do. There's no need to have that.
Howard : Is Laura Kelley still running Microdental in San Francisco?
Ronald: No. She has her own laboratory.
Howard : Oh, really? What's her new lab?
Ronald: Laura Kelley.
Howard : Laura Kelley. What's her new ad?
Ronald: LK Dental.
Howard : LK Dental. I haven't seen her a long time. Do you still talk to her?
Ronald: She's terrific. I saw her. I talked to her about a year ago. She's had a great, great laboratory.
Howard : LKDental.com?
Howard : I've got to look her up. She is an amazing woman too.
Ronald: Yeah. Anyway ...
Howard : She always kind of target, I mean. When she was with Micro Dental, she was virtually targeting Bill Dickerson's group. Who by the way Bill Dickerson's group is having their 20th anniversary party this weekend in Vegas.
Ronald: .. Are you going?
Howard : Well, I though about it but I got a triathlon Ironman my third one coming up in November 15. The last thing I need is to skip a weekend of training while drinking and partying in Vegas for three days. That would probably not be good for my schedule.
Ronald: I remember all the issues that came up with Bill. The other thing that I'm not saying that everybody has V Cosmetic but you're talking about the Mary Academy Cosmetic Dentistry. Everyone of your people should get a membership because they really put their wings around me either that or ASDA which is Erwin's Michael's group. They're a great guy by the way.
Howard : You still talk to Erwin?
Ronald: I talk to him once a year. I see him at his meeting every once in a while. He talk about learning things. If I were a dentist starting out, I mean you'll gonna learn a lot of stuff in AVA but you'll get more out of dentistry in this little groups in ACD. They help you out a lot. You too see, you know, you're talking to me about laboratory, talking about companies. Another one that I think about Brasseler.
Howard : [Geno 00:22:24] Brasseler, he was an amazing man. What a guy.
Ronald: He was amazing. Yes, he was.
Howard : I actually miss him. How many years did he pass away?
Ronald: I will say about 15.
Howard : 15. He was an amazing man.
Ronald: Yeah. He was a great guy. I mean, we put a lot of diamonds out with them and still using them. These are the companies. You stick with these big companies. I think they're going to be fine. Listen, the new things that are out now, it hasn't gone much on the East Coast as West Coast as Cambra.
Howard : Cambra?
Ronald: Yeah. That's a big deal in San Francisco. I mean, dentist don't understand it. I'm an old time dentist but Kim Koch and his company Caries Free has made a big impact in my practice. A lot of my patients who were over the 50 years of age who's taking medication of dry mouth and we've seen big, big caries problem. I also, besides caries from dry mouth, I have a lot of Coca Cola people and you know, I used to treat the President of Coca Cola and then Vice Presidents. I have a couple of Vice Presidents now and I tell them Diet Coke is screwing everybody up. I even heard on television this morning, what's her name? What's this blonde girl at talkshow?
Andres: Kelley Ripa.
Ronald: Kelley Ripa. Kelley Ripa, cute girl and I'm going to tell you name you don't even know.
Andres: Come on. I've already drawn, they're all cute. Come on, you're 75. You're blessed as I can see and it wasn't cute.
Ronald: There is a story to my best friend Alan Finkelstein in New York. He is a guru of insurance, the United Health Care. Kelley was talking about dentistry on a program talking about Alan. Absolutely incredible. I will tell you that she started talking about what are altoids. Altoids as you know a poison in dentistry. You're talking about like [inudible 00:24:59]. Any patient that's using altoids can be a rampant caries so I'm giving you 50 years of research on that. My Coca Cola people don't understand that it's not the sugar. Most dentist don't understand. It's the carbonation. Carbonation is acid. It's causing all this bacteria in your mouth. This caries threat free has this machine out that I don't know if you're familiar with it where you swab the mouth, you can get the number of ATP blocks from the bacteria and give you like a number. Are you familiar with the machine?
Andres: Are you doing Mac Kim Koch's machine?
Andres: He would do so much good if he makes an online CE course on that at Dental Town. I need to get him on a podcast and I need to get him to do an hour course. How often do you talk to Kim? Do you talked to him recently?
Ronald: I saw her at a wedding at Bill Brown's wedding. You know Bill Brown from college?
Andres: Yes. Absolutely.
Ronald: His daughter got married about a month ago. We were all out there down here in Atlanta so it's easy.
Andres: Did you like her future ex-husband? Was he a good guy?
Ronald: I don't know.
Andres: I'm just kidding. Bad damn Joe. I think Cariology and the Science of and in understanding carbonation and how the low ph of Diet Coke coming in at four is so helpful for streptococcus mutans when the mouth should be a [neutral pit 00:26:48]. It's amazing. What's also amazing is how they're discovering a new bacteria in the mouth every three months. They're discovering a new species in the mouth.
Ronald: Well, Howard. Who would have taught I mean, that patients would accept these numbers. If I gave them litmus paper, they see acid, that won't mean anything. But you tell them how much your gas is causing them in a car, and if they see the numbers and understand it and if you have a person like Andres who explain this whole situation, you get your hygienist do it. They come back and they understand it. They don't blame you anymore. I've had a lot of those ... Not a lot but many red flag patients you know. You know a red flag is? Talk about everything but they accept those numbers to be true and they will get on the mouth and even though it's drinking pool water as chlorine, it works. We're very, very happy with it. I would like Kim Koch to do some of the stuff, he haven't done it. I will get him to do something with you. He just needs to have the exposure. I don't why it's just in [inaudible 00:28:10]
Andres: You know, I was ... Kim would take a further step because I can go into a practice and increase a recall by a third just by explaining to every woman who comes in every three or six months who's husband hasn't come in. It's like you know below the belt you can pass diseases. Why do you think you can get your teeth cleaned every three or six months? Brush and floss every morning and then when you kiss your husband and trade saliva, how do you not understand that your trading an infection and it blows my mind how ... And when you tell any patients they go like, "Really?" I'm just like, "You know below the belt you can get pregnant and gonorrhea and herpes and aids. Why does Americans, why do you earthlings not realize that the mouth is any different? I mean, it blows my mind how you'll see dentistry a woman every three months for gum disease and won't go away and they'd never see their husband who hadn't his teeth thing in ten years and he's got a bomb on number two and gum disease and she's sitting there kissing him every night.
Ronald: You bring that up, they'll be happy. Anyway, we're talking about fees. That brings me up to ... I was giving a lecture at the ACD on fees and some fellows said, "Why do you have a range of fees?" I said, "Well, I had two fees. I have a six inch fee and a twelve inch fee." They didn't understand what was going on and I said, "Yeah. If a patient holds a mirror six inches away from her mouth is one thing."
Howard : Oh, that is clutch.
Ronald: I said, "All right, so I'm going two feet scale."
Howard : That is clutch. I love it. Some people their needs are so high they're so high in maintenance. I have a cosmetic AACD guy up the street and he's always like profusely thanking me for sending us some of this veneer cases and he has no idea. I tell him but I mean I only send him the bad, shit, crazy women here coming in and have their mirror right in their face and they're telling me all this stuff and it's like, "My God, there's not enough money in China for me to do this case and he loves to deal with them.
Ronald: That's right. I am dating a Catholic girlfriend who was my patient thirty years ago. I had no attraction to her until I got divorced but she needed a full reconstruction and a hell a lot of money and I'm looking in and she started asking me this, asked me this, asked me this and I'm starting to add up and I overcharged her. I mean, I overcharged her and after I got through the case, I finished it up with no problems whatsoever. About two weeks later, I send her check for $5,000. I want to tell you something. I made a good friend and I used to do that when I have my own my practice. I don't practice by you know, I'm in a good practice now. I like group practice. If you ask me any difference between being solo and in a group practice, there is a big difference. I love to have my colleagues to look at what I do because I don't trust myself. I want to make sure everything is perfect. When I'm at at the office, they get to check it if everything is good, it's like being in school.
Howard : You know I did last Thursday night with the first associate I hired Bob Savage and I hired him right when I'm on my practice. I thought he was just professionally lonely to be the only dentist ... I mean, you didn't have your ... Where's your classmate, your schoolmate? He was the same age. He was just out of school and that was the most fun thing about driving to work is seeing Bob and then later Saint Dominic and Tom Jacobi. I think that's why I start Dental Time just because when I saw the internet I just thought, "Well, we don't have to be professionally lonely anymore. It was so tough to go home and take your dentist head off and then play with the Tonky truck in a sandbox and nobody that loved you could understand your root canal questions.
Ronald: You like to have somebody pat you on the shoulders every once in a while and a lesson, I let them look whatever I have. You know, when you have internet now in your practice, everybody can pick up on all of your [inaudible 00:32:43] and all your X-rays, after post op and pre op and could be judgmental which is good. It's a good thing. That says a laugh of the merry and group practices I guess. It works both ways. I practice by myself for ten years but I've always been in good group of people. When I decided to merge my practice rather than selling it, couldn't get the money I want in selling it so I merge it with the best practice in the Southeast is Lanas Center of Cosmetic Dentistry that's Deborah King and Charlie Cooper. They're very good dentist.
Howard : I've gotten at least ten different email requests for me to podcast Deborah King. I would love too. You know what that my number one, in fact my only complain on podcast was we have technical sound issues and something like that. It's always how come you interview a dentist, it's a man. Whenever you interview a woman, she's a consultant or a hygienist and this graduating classes are half women and they don't like it when me the short, fat, white, bald guy is always interviewing other old white guys.
Ronald: Say it you're here to go to Joyce Bassett.
Howard : She lives up the street from me, she's scared. She's camera shy. Me, I had dinner with her at her house two weeks ago. She just lives about thirty minutes up the street and I'm telling her, "Come on Joyce." She's like, "I don't know. What are you going to ask me?" She's camera shy.
Ronald: Sure. I talked her a lot. I spent a week with her about five years ago and just had a great time. Joyce has been a wonderful asset and now she's President of ACD.
Howard : First, the first woman President and that's why I told her I said, "You know, Neil Armstrong can't deny he was the first man in the moon." I said, "Joyce, you cannot deny your the first woman dentist ever to be the President of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and your now in a leadership. Your a role model and this dental schools with half women, they need to see people like you, they need to hear from you. I don't want this kids in dental school seeing all the leaders as men. That's why I want to get Deborah on, that's why I want to get Joyce on. That's why I drove 30 minutes I have dinner with her in the house and my son Ryan just to try to sell her on the idea. Ryan, are you still working on her?
Ronald: I'll talk to sell her. I'll talk to Joyce.
Howard : If she doesn't and if she's worried about what questions I'm going to ask her just I told her just give me the question I'll state a script. You just tell me what to ask you.
Ronald: Just give her my interview and that'll be do will be fine with her. You know, you're not getting turned down, she's ...
Howard : You don't why I never had a problem in public speaking is I remember my dad, the true story. One time we've taken my Schwinn bicycle. Remember Schwinn back in the days when that was like the model?
Ronald: Had a spring in the front?
Howard : Yeah. My tire had a flat so he pops the trunk back in the link in town car. You know, you could put a ten-speed bicycle and with the lid stand out and close the lid. I mean, you literally could fit or ride in one more. I figured the Schwinn dealers said he just pump the trunk and I wouldn't got my bike out and so, "Why don't you come in?" He goes, "No. You take it then." "And so what will I tell him?" He's like, "Howard. Well, what will you tell me? You got a flat tire." He goes, "Go in there and tell him your cling a little hopper and you need your tennis racket to be strong." I go, "What?" He goes ... This is what he said to me, he goes, "There's 7 billion people on earth.
One of them right now is thinking about you so quit worrying what people think about you because no one is ever thinking about you. Everyone thinks everyone's else's thing about them and they're not." He goes, "Just don't tell them what you told me." That eliminated my fear because then I realize when you take a shower in the morning, there's no one on earth thinking of you so why are you afraid to go say something or do an interview or whatever. When people are going to listen to Joyce, they're not thinking about Joyce, they're thinking about what they can learn from Joyce for their own life and their own self.
Ronald: Joyce is ... Well, I was there when Jack Hammer was you know, remember Jack?
Howard : The founder. He was the founder of the ACD.
Ronald: We went to Vegas for the founder meeting. I was a founder there and that goes back a long time. That's because ... I hope it doesn't show that to him. That's when the Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry wouldn't allow you to come in unless you're a clinician. We decided that Cosmetic Dentistry is for everyone and now it works out really well. Anybody can do it. It's no big deal. Everybody is supposed to be a cosmetic dentist. Everybody is. I mean, you don't put purple restorations on teeth but everybody has to have it color. I would tell you talking about this young kids, I didn't want to be a dentist. I wanted to be physician but I didn't have the grades so I went to University of Alabama and then I went to dental school and I say, "Why not try it out."
My dad may rest in peace was a very, very amazing person who is very, very successful in business and had a multi-million dollar business to me down in Alabama. I said, "No, I want to go to school." I went to school and that was an experience, you know, to go to Alabama roll a pie. You couldn't do anything better than that. I think that these young kids that are coming out now, they have great ... You ask me, they have great opportunities. If they can join these organizations, it doesn't take any tests. Join an organization and learn. Your people like Joyce Bassett will find you're going to place her in that organization. My best friend ... I mean, this people are paranoid. We're all paranoid you know, as if you're going to take patients away for us. You're not going to take patients to us.
Jeff, Gab and I, my wonderful best friend who now passed away about three years ago. He and I were so close. He called me up, he says, "We need to start. We were both on the Board of Directors of ACD." Jeff said, "You know, I've been talking to corporates and he says, "You and I are going to start to surmount, design, counsel to be able to talk to teses designers and fashion." We started it. We incorporate it and the word came out to ACD. You know what? They threw us off the Board. They were so paranoid that somebody else is doing something. That's the kind of people you've got to be where again, the people like Joyce and the ACD are willing to help young kids out and Alpha Omega which I was International President, I started out an internship program forty years ago to get young dentists to go into top offices in the world. Paris, Bernard Tauati's office who is Putin's dentist, Frenchmen of Putin's dentist. To get these guys into a big office and let them learn what we do and share with them I mean, nobody's taking any business away from you. But anyway, what else you want to know from me?
Howard : Do you still are friends of Putin's dentist?
Howard : What's his name?
Ronald: Bernard Tauati.
Howard : Spell it.
Ronald: BERNARD. That's the easy part. Bernard Tauati. TAUATI. He copied us as a cosmetic dentist of Europe. When we brought in veneers, he was best friends of [Ronni Gussin 00:41:09] and he actually copied our tools and everything and thought he was the developer of veneers.
Howard : I cannot thought of anything more radical than doing a podcast and interview with Putin's dentist. You have his email address?
Ronald: I could find it.
Howard : Send it to me. Send it to me at Howard@DentalTown.com. That would be a riot to interview a French dentist who is Putin's dentist.
Ronald: He also is Kate Middleton's dentist.
Howard : Who's that?
Ronald: Bernard Tauati.
Howard : No, who's Kate Middleton?
Ronald: Princess Middleton Kate.
Howard : I am not on top of my princesses.
Ronald: No. She's a British ...
Howard : You mean the ...
Ronald: Princess Diane's daughter, Kate.
Howard : Oh, my God. She just had her second baby, right? Yup.
Ronald: Man, America's in love with the Royal family. I'll never forget one when Princess Di died, it was the same time my personal hero Mother Teresa of Calcutta died who got the novel piece prize in 1969 and when you grew up a Catholic boy, she was just the number one role model idol. Lady Di was on page one for a year and Mother Teresa was on page 9 and it was just a little bit of story and I thought wow. What it meant to me is that America relates a lot more to a lady who had all of her troubles and got married and divorced all. They relate to that. Nobody relates to a Catholic nun. I mean, I know, my children and sisters are Catholic nuns and people just don't relate to them. I'm glad to see you're dating a Catholic girl. Your guilt should be increasing daily now. Do you feel guilty about just doing this podcast?
Howard : No, not at all. I have some page in the [inaudible 00:43:06] Very, very religious. They go out and visit the Pope once a year and this guy is a mega millionaire who has a chapel in each one of his office buildings and the brothers come in and do a service everyday for his employees, Catholic brothers. [inaudible 00:43:30]
Howard : The reason I have someone's self esteem and self confidence because my mother, every time I did something great so he said, "Howie, you're so smart. When you grow up, you're going to be the first American Pope. All the the Popes were Italians but you're going to be the first American Pope and I believe they'll tell ... I was sixteen and got my first girlfriend and then I forgot all about it. I would have go back to ... I was a shout out to Jane, my first high school thing. I want to go back to you. You've been ... You said you had veneer cases that lasted twenty-five, thirty years, etc. etc. etc. Your seventy-five on this for half a century, there's kids out there they're right now who's saying, "Get specific, Ron. Get to the meeting."
I know what they're going to tell Toby Tomy. What cement should I use to cement a fool gold crown or a fool's zirconian crown and when would you use cement to an old porcelain crown like the zirconia versus ... When would you bond it? Are you bonding on your crowns or you see many? We're talking about the most common crown in America is a first molar. Veneers are rare, we'll get to that but for the most common crown in the United States, a first molar. Would you do an all porcelain ... You're a cosmetic dentist founder, would you use zirconia or is that not enough cosmetic enough for you would you use? What would you use and what would you cement it with? Be specific?
Ronald: Zirconia I do it everyday forever restorating and I did not bond it. I use Reliacs as much as cement but I put on custom made provisionals which actually Andres does to me. I do the surgery. I do the preparations and get it ready and then take them credit and then I would say, "It's yours," and Andres provisionalize them. Every margin is clear and I don't know sub-circular. I am right at the gingival crest. I don't have any bleeding in my cases most of the time. If they're bleeding that you're going to go over to see my periodontist Laura Braswell. Wait. He's somebody else that you need to interview. Laura Braswell is the number one in my book Laser Periodontist. She's got those periodontists all upset. Now Laura and I did a crown on the elephant at Atlanta Zoo twenty five years ago. Now, I don't know how many guys who'd put a crown on a tusk of an elephant but I did. She is a dentist for the Atlanta Zoo. She got a great CV. She was partners with Mike Fritz who was Dean of Emery. He's one of the best periodontist in the Southeast.
Howard : Tell her I want to interview her.
Ronald: You will love her.
Howard : You know, dentists who ... Dr. Sam Dominic who put a crown on me, he tells everybody he put a crown on the elephant.
Ronald: Well, I'm to say [inaudible 00:46:46] you know that.
Howard : To go back, my job is to ... Most patients find it very interesting when you tell that an elephant's tusk is actually their lateral incisor. It's just an upper tooth. When I was in school, I actually thought it was a canine but later I found out it was a lateral incisor. My job is to guest the questions of 7,000 dentists listening to you most all of which are listening to you on sound, on iTunes to their car and they're coming to work. I know somebody's out there asking, "Why do you cement and why do you not bond them? Why do you not take the advantage of bonding the crown? Why do you just cement a [fracture 00:47:26] or what did you say, zirconia? Why do you cement it and not bond it?
Ronald: I don't feel and many times the reduction is more than you want because it carries where it's too much were done and I do abuild up. If you don't do a build up, then you go ahead and put ... I've been in too many discussions with people about the bond putting acid on the Pope and I forget to what is ..
Howard : John Cagan. Cagan was the first one saying NASA reached the ... Remember back in the day when everybody was hanging on to keep asking about the dental and going to play and measures and can't get to show all these slides with acids all over the dent.
Ronald: I know, I got into those arguments with them but then they quieted me down but with Reliacs, all I do is neutralize the preparation. You had some [inaudible 00:48:31] preparation and get clean that off and you can use composite or you know Thermos and a rubber cup if you want to ... And then I use peroxide and [consepsus 00:48:45], a flesh dose preparation. I actually sterilize them and then I drive them off, block them off and then I use my Reliacs, Unisem right there and we trim it all the way. We don't have problems. We don't have [debonding 00:49:02] and we don't have sensitivity.
Howard : Tell us. I know someone's asking, "Dr. Feinman, what is conceptus? Who makes it and what is that all about.
Ronald: For oxidation. I think Darren Fish has it.
Howard : The big question on conceptus that I see on I Bromhexine, isn't that an oil that sticks to the tooth would that interfere with the cementation, the bonding , anything?
Ronald: No, its neutral, Not at all. I'm telling you, so that's so simple. Simple is the best. When you get into etching and putting steel cement and bonding agents, that's adding resistance receding a crown. You don't know if it pulls off and crap. That's we have issues. Keep it clean, keep it simple. This is the first time that I've been interviewed, first IPod case, number one.
Howard : Really? I'm your first?
Ronald: You're my first?
Howard : That just made my day.
Ronald: Whether it's a good view or it was in me.
Howard : It was. I'm going to ... when I drive back to the office, I'm going to pod run twenty red lights. No, seriously. That is a huge honor to be the first kind of podcast it.
Ronald: I'm not talking about dentistry for an hour without slides so you're changing my mood. That's one of the reason that I got out of lecturing. I had 2,035mm of slides of cases and I didn't want them to put on the computer and I just got roller bike technology and we're fine. I certainly got my pictures. I've got some great cases that I should really publish.
Howard : You know you should do? You should digitize them forever by creating an online course on Dental Town. Those slide, we put up 325 courses. They've been viewed over a half a million times and it's so easy to do. All you have to do is to upload those slides. Your partner can help to do that. Then you just call and you can do a voice over. You could sit there on your coach with all the slides up late, give your lecture and I swear once you put that up on the internet, it'll be there for a thousand years. I think it would be a great waste of all those cases.
Ronald: Well, Andres like to hear that.
Howard : It would just be a complete colossal ways.
Ronald: We had just initial case, you're not going to believe this. I'm not blowing wind but thirty units in one patient, full coverage on a twenty four of them, six veneers. Now, he looked like he had a [methmouth 00:52:05]. He looked like he had lost all of his enamel. He had a flat claim of inclusion. He was suffering from headaches and what kind of headaches ...
Andres: Migraine Headaches.
Ronald: His clinical history had Metamphetamine, taking it daily and taking on our products and all sorts of stuff like that. I was on the line with this position everyday to see what's going on. We prep and impress his entire mouth a couple lower with regular anesthetic. Took on presence, seated everything. He never had a pain, never had a skip or inclusion. We take records. It's amazing that if you take your time and do your staff, it works out really well. This is a guy and this happy camping now. I thought has was looking doing accolades but ...
Howard : Ron, think about this. Think about this. You've been doing for half a century. Let's say you were to go to a Catholic church with your new girlfriend and were struck by lightning and killed. It will all just never be seen again. It will just be gone. You really to get that on the internet. If you put them all and we have 205,000 dentists from that coach, you would be teaching dentist in Kathmandu and Syria and Yemen from that coach. I mean, I really think you've got to do it.
Ronald: We'll talk about that.
Howard : I want to switch.
Ronald: Of course. You make it too easy.
Howard : Well, I do. My whole goal with dentistry and Dental Town and everything is that when you're in America, you know Henry Ford is the first one to say, "If you make really nice stuff for rich you, you aim on the classes, you'll be so poor you'll relate to the masses. In America, if you can make a faster, easier, higher quality, lower cost and my whole business model has always been lowest cost and I try to do that on my dental office at Today's Dental. I tried to do that at Dental Town you know it's free, podcast are free. Online courses were we charge money, I mean they're like $18. The dentist will say, "Thank you for making it so affordable. We also don't charge anybody and there's 206 countries. We only charge people for CE and rich country. We don't charge them in poor countries.
In fact, when I went to one dental school in Nepal, I mean, the dean literally, she literally cried when she saw me. She was so grateful for all these courses and everything on Dental Town and she just kind of tell me, "You have no idea. You have no idea. That's all we do is look at this courses and cases and you could be lecturing to all the dental students in Kathmandu which are all pretty much beautiful Nepalese women and they all they do is giggle in class. They just sit around looking at Dental Town and giggle. It was so fund to see. I want to switch gears. I want to switch gears. You talked about cementing a crown on the first molar and you talked about why you don't bond? Okay now, switch gears completely, you can't cement a veneer. What do you bond a veneer on with on entirety.
Ronald: With the 3M, veneer, cement and bonding agent.
Howard : You know the name of it?
Andres: Reliacs. Veneer.
Ronald: Reliacs, veneer, cement and bonding agent.
Howard : Reliacs, veneer, cement. Out of all the cement, you prefer that one the most.
Ronald: Always the twenties since 1994. That's when they came out. They didn't have the veneer cement, that they had crown and veneer cement and then they Reliacs veneer cement after that.
Howard : They used to in 1994, didn't they used to call it? That was when they change it. It would have been [bichemeer 00:56:20] or [bicherbond 00:56:21] and [bichemeer 00:56:22] and then all ...
Ronald: Bichemeer and a glass [inaudible 00:56:24] cement.
Howard : Bicherbond was this bichemere was a cement. Wasn't it?
Ronald: Listen, let me tell something.
Howard : Then the next time I ordered it was Reliacs.
Ronald: Half a bond with compound impressions. You know what that is?
Howard : Heck, yeah. I used to do that in '84, '85, '86. I don't even know if I don't even buy them anymore.
Ronald: These kids just don't know what we've done for them.
Howard : Ron, we got to bring that technique back. We've got to bring that ... I haven't used those in a decade and you would just crimp the topper and you cut it and you mold it to the tooth. It was the perfect build up. It was a build up where after you did it, you almost didn't have enough to prep the tooth back. It was you mold it ... that technique is so amazing. That needs to be brought back. Do you have a lecture on that? Do you have some slides on that?
Howard : That was before the drama.
Ronald: I didn't even think I have, how many would think I have a picture of that anymore?
Howard : Yeah, that was a great technique. Did you ever do a gold foil?
Ronald: Of course. Now you know, I had to get my floor of the license.
Howard : I think those should come back and you know why, because Phoenix has a lot of retired people from the Northern Mid West, North and South Dakota and Minnesota. If there was in Mississippi, they come here to Phoenix to retire snowbirds and there is to go to Florida. Those gold foils, it's a microbiological effect because they're open margins, you can see gaps on them and they're fifty years old and then you see a next tooth where you sit there and do this beautiful bonded plastic by restoration and three, five years later sort of got recurrent decay around the margins. There's something massively antibacterial about high noble gold foils because no matter how big the gaps and margins are, they're still there fifty years later. I'm thinking right now of this Alzheimer's stations that I know and have and see and her over gold work is like because he has no home care, she doesn't know her name, any of that stuff and older composites and PFNs have failed recurrent decay in a big ,huge way but that high noble gold work is still sitting there. When I look at that mouth I mean, it's just so apparent that gold is bacterial static, high energy, shiny gold.
Ronald: What about using all and what do we put down into root canals to blacken the tooth? Use them all in silver nitrate.
Howard : Silver nitrate.
Ronald: Got rid of all decay work. You can take ... You see, they forgot about that.
Howard : Silver nitrate I think is making a comeback. There's Peter's Honest on Dental Town talking. If you're not putting this underneath your fillings on little kids, you're crazy because they're already ... All the old guys like us are saying, "When we put this underneath the filling it killed everything so it lasts longer." I think dentistry like a civil engineer, they go to build a barn. They build it so the barn won't fall down but the barn always comes down from termites. Dentists are biologists, we're not engineers. Once we just can get the dentist going from I'm an architect building a bridge too, I'm a biologist, how can I kill these bugs and restore this tooth with stuff that bugs hate dentistry and in quick kissing with people and making out with people that are filled with bugs i.e. your husband who hasn't been to the dentist in ten years. Dentistry will take another giant leap forward.
Ronald: You can get program on getting your spouse to the dentist, I think we can start that.
Howard : Ron, I just want to say that you are so old, you're the only person I know left that hasn't mailed all account. I've got to give you ... Every born under seventy has a Gmail account but Ron is hanging on nail. My last question because we're running out of time, we're passed an hour is the CEO of Coke, the biggest controversial thing about Coke is not so much, there's an acid in Diet Coke promote decay, the sugar promote decay but what do you think? Was there cocaine in the original formula back in the 1800s?
Ronald: I think I believe that but I would tell you that they don't want to listen to me. I keep telling them to start using Xylitol and it's sweet.
Howard : You know our history repeats itself? Everybody thinks extremists but you go back down to that South America when those people chew cocoa leaves. It's a very, very small amount of cocaine, they don't get stunned but it's an appetizing depressant. I've always thought when you go down to Peru, when you go down to those areas, if they sold bags of cocoa leaves when obesity ... A third of the people myself included in America are obese and they need to lose belly fat. If bringing back chewing on cocoa leaves or putting them back in Coca Cola and if you say that people might think, "Oh, my God. You're bad shit crazy." The bottom line is it would probably be a rule in public health thing.
Ronald: I always heard that that's why you're so successful with your marathon, you're chewing that leaf. It keeps you going all the time and you're losing your hair.
Howard : You know, I think I am losing my hair. I think I'm going bald Ron. We're out of time and I just want to beg you from the bottom of me. I mean, these kids ... I've got the honor of listening to you at half dozen times the major meetings back in the 80's and 90's and you got all those slides. You could be run over by a car tomorrow. That needs to be digitized forever so people can be learning from your half century work, a half a century from now. Ron, we run out of time. Thank you for all that you've done for dentistry. Thank you so much for sparing an hour with me today.
Ronald: It was a pleasure seeing you again Howard and I'm gonna get on the phone with Joyce and Kim and let them know that you'll come and answer them. Bless you.
Howard : Email Bernard, Totsie, Putin's dentist and Laura Brasswell, you live and Richard Simonson. God, I haven't seen that guy in twenty years. He was from England originally. Right?
Ronald: Australia I think.
Howard : Was it Australia? Okay. Thank you so much and thank you for all that you've personally did for my career in getting me launched.
Ronald: You're terrific.
Howard : Have a great day Ron.
Ronald: You too. Buh bye.