Aurelia Byrne is a Registered Dental Hygienist and the founder of the A~flexX Assist Arm. A~flexX is the first company in dentistry that invented a third arm that attaches to the back of a dental chair, giving hundreds of practicing dental hygienists and dentists an extra hand. A~flexX provides quality products that offer solutions to current problems in dentistry, such as aerosol management and dental ergonomics.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1501 - Aurelia Byrne
AUDIO - DUwHF #1501 - Aurelia Byrne
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It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Aurelia Byrne RDH CDA COA the cda certified dental assistant coa certified orthodontic assistant and she's a registered dental hygienist and the founder of a flex assist arm which is the first company in dentistry that invented a third arm that attaches to the back of a dental chair giving hundreds of practicing dental hygienists and dentists an extra hand aflex provides quality products that offer solutions to current problems in dentistry such as aerosol management and dental economics and i um i saw i posted your story on Dentaltown um this guy started a thread my assistant's arm uh won't turn and you know the i love entrepreneurs i love operations and logistics and i love this whole story and i asked you to come on the show um thank you so much for coming on the show how are you doing today I’m great thank you for having me I’m I’m honored like i was when i when you asked me or i was like oh my gosh this is a great I’m so excited to be here thank you oh thanks man sorry it's the day after election and you live in Florida you you you'd probably be happy to be anywhere uh than that uh uh it's funny because uh i live in Arizona and now they uh jokingly call us the Florida of the west so uh so we both should be equally insane for this uh podcast interview um how um first of all your journey uh my gosh you were certified dental assistant certified orthodontic assistant um you became a hygienist um you have um um dna that's dental are you are you related um to that other um kirk is he uh family or or he is he's my uncle he he uh my aunt is the blood relation she married him she was his dental assistant and and in his practice many many years ago back i gosh i wouldn't say late late 80s and so from there um i he trained me on the job when you know i said hey i want to i want to while i was in college doing something completely different i was going for environmental engineering at that time i was like i'll work at your dental office you know for for a short period of time and make some extra cash and next thing i know it like turned into this whole entire career unexpectedly um so it's it was interesting because i wasn't expecting that but so were you born out there in California san Juan Capistrano i actually was born in Arizona oh really whereabouts i am um was born in Tucson Arizona wow that is wild you've lived a lot of places on Tucson California i love that san Juan Capistrano of course um that was one of the first vacations um our family took all um we all wanted to see Disneyland but mom wanted to see that at campus Toronto that that is really a beautiful place there and so then you um so you played around there and started assisting there where did you go to hygiene school um i went to hygiene school in Dallas Texas at concord career college in Dallas so it was a you know an accelerated program very very strict on ergonomics and they they did a great job i was really impressed and because i was in the education industry as a dental assistant instructor for a proprietary school like that i understood how it was going to operate and how how fast it was going to move us through and how important it was to to you know do exactly what they told us to do so they got three locations they got one out there they're in Kansas city they're in Jacksonville Florida and Dallas Texas so are they are you close to uh uh well you're in uh fort Lauderdale Florida how close is that to uh Jacksonville that's not very close is it uh yeah that's Jacksonville’s like three to four hours maybe five hours north yeah five hours well i got to tell you the dumbest uh thing uh when i realized i did not know my geography this is the most stupid story known a man i was uh lecturing in Houston it was the first time and i got in there early and i thought well you want to be fun since you're right there on the border I’m just going to go spend um when i get there I’m going to go right to the border so i throw my luggage on the bed and i run down i hail the cab back and i send me jumps and goes where you going i said the border Mexico he looks at me goes Mexico i go yeah Mexico i want to go to the border because dude we're eight hours from Mexico and I’m like no no Houston it's right there in the bottom right hand corner and you know you don't have you know that's before smartphones and computers he showed me a map and I’m like i can't frickin believe it in my walnut brain i just thought you know you have Dallas Houston’s down there by Mexico uh but uh crazy crazy um so um you um are now in um um fort Lauderdale uh so do you think you'll go back to that um um that hygiene school uh in um up the street uh to oh and five five hours from here Jacksonville yeah i mean are you still well some people when they uh they they just have this burning uh desire to teach like i got friends out here that just crush it Monday through Thursday and then take a bath but they they work one day a week in one of these two dental schools and they love that the most and they get they earn you know like a little hundred dollars or two hundred dollars a day so some some people just will will teach money for free they love teaching so much i i i would definitely love to teach unfortunately i don't have my license here in Florida so when i when i moved here which was just in march recently you know all my my license is in actually in Texas and in Arizona so to get a license over here i have to go like i have to go through all these different boards it's unbelievable like they should make it ridiculous well let's let's talk about that because Arizona is the first state that passed a law that we accept licenses from any of the other 50 states it doesn't matter if it's accounting cpa whatever but those are economic barriers to free trade i mean i i i think it's so comical how you know our government will spend like six years writing a free trade agreement i mean if there's free trade just say hey aurelia feel free to trade but when it takes six years and a thousand attorneys to write a deal um they know they're lying cheating and stealing and um and all these uh board things was because dental societies which dennis still contribute pac money to go get lawyers they pass all these barriers to free trade and it hurts the patient and they think they're gonna make more money for that but it ends up hurting them in the long run but anyway i just think it's totally old school um Arizona just passed medical marijuana uh yesterday uh thirteenth century already passed huh well they had they had medical marijuana but now it's recreational oh it's recreational now recreational and uh it's it's such a because now that first it was medical so it's all you know the mob's just gonna shake you down for all this money and the license and the dispenser i mean i just cannot believe that even after this election that people still think that whoever they voted for is going to be there to help them i mean the the mob has only been trying to shake you down and steal all your money your whole flipping life and um like it'll be the 13th uh for recreational night okay so you can bite at walgreens oh no no it'll be like a liquor license a marijuana license i mean they're gonna get all their fingers in there and just ruin it every way they can i i still think it's embarrassing that you go down to uh san diego why do americans not figure out that a five dollar uh deal of beer and i say it's across the border and it's a dollar and it's uh it's their friendly government that was there trying to help them i thought yesterday was like deciding whether you wanted you your leg amputated above or below the knee i mean uh you know the two choices we always get um another thing i would ask you for marketing you call it the a flex x assist arm um but that little um that little thing that little curly cue in the deal um does that um does that affect your seo your website is that or is that list like a letter in the alphabet i was wondering how that affected marketing branding in a world that's gone digital what is that thing even called good good good call um we just actually learned about that in our seo and on our because it's an actual coding thing and sometimes you can't put that in um in certain things so we literally just learned that probably about four months ago but honestly when when we came up with it it was just a cool it was supposed to be cool looking and it's a flex i know a lot of people a flex x which it looks like you know because the x is bigger but that's just well i have five programmers that that run dental town right yeah and uh they would they all saw that and had a heart attack just like okay she's a hygienist you gotta tell her no you can't do that that's uh uh that's uh yeah i can make it just a line or something you know yeah i mean like uh you know it's just uh my god everything is seo and the thing that's really bizarre about dentists is what they don't realize is um one of the things that kills their seo like they're thinking well should i buy more facebook ads or should i do this or that and it's the little things it's like well you're on your website it says 101 uh first street then you spell up first f-i-r-s-t and then on your other thing it's the numeral one with an s-t and you and i can look at that and both know it's it's first but a computer isn't a brain it it you know it just gets there and it doesn't know what to do and it is amazing how um if you just make all your uh you know your google listing your website liz if everything just has the exact same cut and paste address zip code everything the same then the brainless artificial intelligence seo can configure it a lot together but that one is going to just that is going to be crazy that's the uh yeah you just gotta that's my we were told that and so yeah it's so funny but we just learned that and we've been around like since 2016 with that little in-yay thing you know that little squiggly so greatly yeah and if you're listening to this when you get to work i mean just go to your website google your name go to your facebook page go to all your social media and just ask yourself is every single detail exactly the same because remember if i asked you if i asked you to go make me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich you just grabbed your piece of bread and you you'd be talking to me looking at me the whole time you were making it right but a computer can't do that they're just gonna say well okay there's two slices of bread slice one side a sliced one side b what do you want the peanut butter on you know i mean if you if you just don't even tell them which side of the bread to put on the computer will stop and freeze i mean it can't think it just uh it has to have everything spelled out perfectly so tell me about your journey on this a flex arm because i thought to myself well what was her problem was she uh didn't have an assistant uh you know why why did she need a third arm yeah good question um it didn't i mean honestly like again i started off in dentistry when i was way younger i was 18 and i just didn't think about because i was always a dental assistant it wasn't until i went back to hygiene school that i i realized that the saliva eject is dripping off the side of the cheek water's filling up i got to be in this proper ergonomic position or also I’m going to get repetitive motion disorders when i you know and and muscle soreness and it was just completely uncomfortable for me personally to practice the way i was taught by the instructors in my school like that and they they hammered the ergonomics into us like we were graded on that so if i can't see then you know i have to tilt my head so i thought i just need something right here to hold this this saliva ejector in place so that you know i can see use my indirect vision and actually see what I’m doing so fast forward going through school graduated 2016. um i i i met an amazing business partner on a random trip to cabo san lucas who i didn't know at the time was going to be my business partner um i told him my idea how i needed this thing and um took him to the dental office because he's no dental experience showed him what i was talking about and a month later i got the first prototype a flex assist arm that holds a saliva ejector um like right there and i was ready i was like this is going to market right now and he's like whoa whoa slow your roll you're gonna have to test this thing you're gonna have to do you know all kinds of things I’m like no it works but luckily he pushed me to test more and make more prototypes so um yeah i and i love Cabo i think me and uh craig stykin i think we've gone down there uh he's a dennis Albuquerque gone there like four times to uh deep sea fish just love that place um but just a heads up to the young kids when you go and it's very interesting um when you go down there and you see a dentist that looks and talks and has the same acts that you do you gotta ask y'all did he really want to leave you know san diego and Dallas and uh to go to Cabo and live the rest of his life no they're all running from the law and it's always the same thing they got busted for um um insurance um because and uh no practice well the insurance thing is is deal where you know I’ve seen this several times where um one of their receptionists is is billing incorrectly and it adds up to you know hundreds of thousands over the years and and you tell them oh we didn't know well they're not there to help you correct yeah they're not you know they they can't even um when you accept Medicaid they can't even direct deposit in your bank account so that they don't have any effort on their end but when there's mistakes made the only thing they want to do to get their brownie point is to convict you and send you to jail for seven years i mean it's just a said that the culture of the law enforcement the deal the police it's it's a sick system and i i know several dentists in fact one of my first dentist friends down there um just died um i think last thanksgiving at like 80. but he had to live from 60 to 80 in Mexico city because his adorable perfect wife barb who i just loved her to death was a dingbat she didn't know about and and she screwed it all up and it took him 10 years before Medicaid got on but at that time the the best deal they'd give him is seven years in prison oh wow so he's ready he went he went to Mexico and then and then the other one is um um uh opioids you know they they get addicted uh by Canadian or pertinent or whatever and they're gonna go uh um you know they're gonna have to go do jail time or something and they go down there and um so uh um when you meet dennis down there you ought to listen to why are you down there and you'll start realizing the other face to your government that you might not always hear about but it's not pretty so you're you're at um you're done at Cabo uh you're drinking way too much you tell this guy your story and he makes a prototype yeah they're pretty much um how long ago was that that was for 2016 that was august it was in august 2016. literally we were down there for actually my best friend's husband had passed away from cancer very suddenly at a very young age of 32 and her son you know it was a her son took us to Cabo to to to get her mind off of this horrific thing that had just happened and uh and gary that's my business partner he was there with his friends celebrating a birthday party and it got wild nice and and how was that and then another thing of the talk about i know girls aren't going to give away their age or how long they've been out of school or whatever but a quarter of our listeners are still in dental kindergarten school and i know when you're 23 you're going to live forever you're never going to wreck a motorcycle you're not gonna you know you know nothing goes wrong when you're at that age but my gosh you blink i mean i can't believe my four boys have turned into six grandkids and now i have a teenager grandkid Danelle’s a teenager he's 13. I’m like Dannell you can't be 13. and uh my gosh and and those long chronic working with your head over direct access you don't get it kids i mean it's it's you can't do it because it's a bad habit i mean it you you and i i had a really bad one i just love to look straight in the mouth i love to bend my head over you know here i got this 10 pound bold bowling ball leaning over looking direct and um you do that for 10 20 years you're you're you're screwed aren't you and then you just say oh one more time nope I’m not going to do that and then the next thing you know you find yourself looking you know again and it is super hard to be in that position and dentists have it the worst in a lot of ways because you got you know just so much going on you know you got very sharp things oh so do hygienists but i mean we can have we could take our time we could do you know your situation is very very different in a lot of ways and you know I’m old enough to remember the transition where you know when i was in high school it was they were still 50 50 stand up sit down no i'd say that was more in grammar school and then by high school i remember uh the one the dentist on the west side used to always tease dr uh prepared because uh uh no it was peltzer uh because he kept standing up and peltzer he told me and he he told me in strongly worded terms he goes i know these guys making fun of me because uh they've had more problems taking to the chair than stand up and so you know then you go into dentistry how do you have all the oral surgeons still doing stand up yeah and then all the periodontists you know they're placed about same number of implants but one all sit down one all stands up do you know if anybody uh who won the ergonomic award between that oral surgeon standing in peridone and sitting down or what were what would your thoughts be i think we should find out i think that's a i think that would be a super great study to fight to figure that out like what what how many you know where is their muscle repetitive motion disorders coming from versus the periodontist i think that would be awesome what did you call it repetitive like repetitive muscle disorder or repetitive muscle yeah disorder i get like forgetting it right all of a sudden um no excuse me repetitive motion disorder one of the sweetest places I’ve ever had just died a couple weeks ago and way back in the early 80s he saw me coming out of the room and i was like popping my neck and doing this and that and uh he was an engineer and he said he said he said um no that that's not how you unwind after doing all that he goes i get it and he came back and um tom g kobe who's the editor of dental town magazine since 2000 he was there and Sam Dominic was there and he put up installed a pull-up bar and he said you don't have to pull up just when you're done just grab that thing and hang for one minute and then I’ve also heard another doctor who was talking about a carpal tunnel syndrome and he says yeah because afterwards they're stressed they go to the break room they eat cheez-its and he says if they just got down on the floor and did one push-up on the flat hand you know but um it's a weird job and I’m so jealous of all the people who picked a career that they get to work out all day yeah instead of sitting at a desk but i i think we're entering a new twilight zone where more people are going to be sitting at a desk all day and then going out there physically moving and that that's uh that's going to cost your body isn't it yeah i believe so for sure was that the main thing was that the main drive on a flex assist arm was ergonomics or was it just the fact that you just need to third arm and would prefer just hiring an octopus with eight if you could have trained one i yeah you know that's a really great question um i didn't really i just felt really passionate about this would help somebody because i i thought i mean i it helped me and and if it helped me why couldn't it help in all the rest of the hygienist like that's really where my brains were at and then i just got really passionate about this you know being in in an ergonomic position and and just you know i wanted to develop more products that would allow us to uh have more you know affordable products for hygienists that they can purchase on their own because not all dentists are generous with their with their money i mean it's there's a lot of overhead in dentistry so um it became a passion to do some ergonomics and then uh we just decided to do a lighter hose which is the the second ergonomic product that we came out with and that was mainly for dental assistants because at the time there was no products for dental assistants which they're always using you know their hve and it's very heavy and that's called the infinity hose so that's where we got um the second product so which one's in your hand right now uh this is the original um a flex assist arm by the way i love the the way you're doing the a-flex logo without the squiggle on your shirt capital a and n actually no squiggles I’m gonna have to talk to talk to her well i don't see the squiggle on that it's it's squiggleless isn't it it's squiggleless yes yeah i think that's perfect that's that's no squiggle yeah no nose wheel because the uh the computers so so which one's in your hand so this is the lbe holder so it has um it holds the saliva ejector and this is the the new pump style the original had a blue dial that would go onto the chair and all these parts are injection molded um and this just literally um you know i got like seven thousand on my chair this one goes here and you just pump it on there and it grabs onto your chair the live ejector hose goes in here and you move this in and out the mouth of course it's much easier when the patient's back so that's the original lve that's my baby and what's lve stand for low volume evacuation so like the saliva ejector low volume huh that is interesting yeah so the original av and that's 239 yes sir 239 and the the thing is is i mean these are i mean these are indestructible i mean this is that's one of the things that we really care about is making a product that's going to stand the test of time i mean I’m i get so angry about throwaways and and products that we're like you have to you know buy this and buy more consumables buy more consumables and coming from a family of dentistry and knowing the business of dentistry and the overhead that it takes to run a dental office it's always been something like gosh this is just money throwing out getting out the window like constantly just what else can we buy i mean which is great for business and revenue but that's not really an ideal situation for but that was your undergraduate degree though wasn't it sustainability or something like that so that's your roots right well yeah I’ve always been into the environment myself like always ever since i was young I’ve I’ve done a lot of fun environmental things by the way a lot of people they don't like to public speak or do podcasts or write articles because they're afraid someone's going to disagree with them but uh i always thought that was the greatest thing I’ve had a monthly column from 94 to now and I’ve done uh you know 1500 podcasts and i love it because when I’m wrong um i i don't want to be wrong if I’m wrong and um there was a dentist jason luchafill that had me i was ranting on the environmentalists this this 20 years ago yeah and he just didn't say a word and he just sent me mail me a book and uh and uh my gosh i got this book and i laughed like i said ah some environmental hippies trying to you know uh convert me read that book smartest book best arguments whatever one book converted me um it was sustainability and where they got me is when i i what i what i was not realizing it was it was cheaper i mean if you build a house and it's all um rockstone floor should it be there a thousand years from now but if you put carpet in there you gotta switch it every five years um you put a drop ceiling in there and then all the water and the drain it looks like crap and you're always redoing it now you go in there and they've got rid of the drop ceilings and they just spray the ceiling what i like the most is chipotle you go into chipotle you you could have a NFL football game in there and nothing would break i mean it is designed for elephants to use and that is a lot more profitable and it's really good for the environment uh so we could just get everything to last twice as long um you know it'd be half as much but um that uh that sustainability stuff um but so your first one was an a flex assist arm the original lve low volume evacuator and how are those cells going those are good you know since we had the hbe um the hpe one come out which i guess we'll discuss a little bit uh we've had way more sales on this because i don't think um originally since 2016 i mean we just didn't do any marketing everything was organically grown um through facebook and um you know and i was fortunate enough to at least ride that small growth slow very slow growth until covid and then this thing took off and put us into a whole different level and and I’m super grateful so so let's talk about that how did covid affect you let alone um a high volume and low volume uh evacuator yeah um so let me grab this this is so remember how i told you there was we had um a light hose for the dental the dental assistant this is our infinity hose it's extremely light extremely flexible um and this was something for ergonomics and this is really what i wanted to push so when covet hit we already had the hose we just never marketed it um and we just because we were you know coveted hit we were on that trajectory but it didn't happen and people were emailing me and and facebooking me saying what are you gonna buy you know make an hve arm and i thought well i understand why people want an hpe arm um but it didn't dawn on me till for a long time because we actually had do you see this little clip here yeah this injection molded clip that we actually made in 2016 knowing that people who are eventually going to have to go to an hve system not an extra oral system but an hve system because of aerosol we're forgetting the aerosol was abuzz before cobit okay so we knew that we were going to make something for the hve well we also knew that when we tried to to make something for the hve a long time ago all the hoses that we we sampled and the valves that they had they were not holding the arm was not supporting those hoses and there was thousands and thousands of different valves out there and you know valves are these things that go off and on just in case people don't really know um and then there's metal ones there's square ones there's all sorts of them so we thought you know drawing just go back to the drawing board we can't figure out how to make an arm that's going to support everyone's hve hose and valve then covet hit and everyone was reaching out and i said you know what why don't we put our light hose and get a lighter valve and put it into our clip and sure enough it was like a win-win almost like divine intervention should i say like how could we have been so lucky that we already had the hose we already had arms and now we just had to put it in place um is that the one on on your youtube you have a nice YouTube channel it's called a flex assist arm that I’m subscribed to um there's a video called initial delivery and attachment uh initial delivery detachment of what is that the uh lv or the hv yeah there's there's several different ones we have a clamp system which is is this one that goes on the neck of a chair which is what you're seeing here i don't know if you can see it and then we have one that's a pump system that goes just on the back you're listening to this on iTunes and uh thank you for uh the i think we just passed eight million downloads but you might want to switch over to YouTube um so you can see that video so just go to uh youtube.com forward slash downtown magazine uh but she's given the uh the demo right there on the video that'd probably be better uh but uh um so we now i worked with the I’m back in California times and i lived there i worked for a holistic dental of dental office and and he had a dent airbag machine and we were using that many many many many many years ago and for amalgam removal big you know the mercury vapors and so i thought why couldn't the suction at least suck up the aerosol into a funnel right there at the source and so that's when the funnel system came about and um gosh you made me think of so many things number one um going back to the early pandemic when they were looking at aerosols who were the people already ready for it it was the uh the mercury removal people who like um all the high-speed evacuation equipment all that stuff and the people that were supplying them um my gosh they they never knew that the the two decades of hal huggins and all that were everybody just thought on dental town it's just kind of a fringe element and it was always will be a fringe element um because it didn't pass the truth and lending deal i mean um they would um you know they would they would all be talking about how mercury's so bad for you it's like okay you know you're listening that while you're eating you know pringles out of a can and drinking a shot of vodka and you know i mean i get it but then it would go from oh you have eight mod amalgams two you need a thirty thousand dollar train plan I’m like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa spanky slow the hell down it was just it was just always that the people that were the leaders it was always you know they'd build the case but you knew where the story was gonna end it was gonna be a thirty thousand dollar full mountain plan and that's why nobody trusted these guys if they you know i mean if you came to me and you had eight mod compose amalgams and said can you replace them with composite i mean what eight times 250 i mean the most I’m thinking is two grand yeah yeah i wouldn't even know how to hallucinate to get to a twenty five thousand dollar training plan but they always did so you don't remember action space for everybody what's that full mouth reconstruction for everybody yeah so you know if you're combining your altruistic uh holier than thou where you know something that the two million dentists don't and all blah blah blah blah blah you may be right but when you turn around to your patient it's a elderly lady suffering from ms and it's always going to be a 25 000 treatment plan you look like a charlatan yeah i mean you're not you're not you're not winning friends and influencing people you're just you just you know you just throw them underdesk but but they were the ones all ready to go and in fact when you you just had a comment earlier that aerosols was a thing before covid yeah so so tell me so tell me is that why this is a game changer for you because more hygienists are wanting high vacuum uh just vacuuming the viruses out of the air and mouth and throwing them outside yeah yeah so the it goes right into your vacuum unit your system so it's right into your your your treatments you know the aerosols are getting sucked up at the source here just like a dent airbag but it's not being filtered in these hepa filters which we really don't know if they're those hepa filters are really working and things like that this goes right into your sewer system just like you know everything else that you suck up you know using your hpe um but yes aerosol was around before cobit it just was starting to be a big deal and that and then this made me nervous because i invented the aflex assistant original which is for the saliva ejector so a lot of people are like well we're going to have to start using hve now for our aerosol control this is a thing and i was like okay that might have to we might have to change up the plan here but um you know that's why we had the clip for the the hve so soon we already had it now you also had a velcro disc or was that something totally different yes so we had um our original ones were this is the this is an lbe as well so we had a blue dial which was awesome it just you know basically same same situation it sticks on the chair righty tighty lefty loosey with the suction and a deck chairs specifically weren't you couldn't attach to them because of the surface even though it looked slick and beautiful it just was like not no bueno wasn't happening so we had these discs that we would put on the chair and then we would attach the the a flex to the disc okay so how did you attach the distance here did you glue it on or how did you do that they were they were adhesives and when we got the big guy the big dog here we had to get a bigger disc and we had to go with 3m and we had to like work with them on glues and then come to find out Howard that those discs were not staying to the a deck chairs and when we were in backorder and we send all these things out a lot of them were falling off the chair so we went back to the drawing board immediately and came up with these two amazing systems and replaced all of those ones that were falling off the chair for our customers now I’m just curious when it didn't uh you said it didn't um it wouldn't work on an a deck chair and so like some some certain rules but i was just curious did you did you tell that to um ken and JoAnne um um Austin the founders of adec no i don't even know who they are we tried reaching out to adec personally and we're like what kind of chair do you have what is the material i mean we we really did try but there was like it was like getting nowhere just like you know how long how long ago was that uh that was in February march February April probably in April of what year this year right here and see he died may 2nd 2019. and so here's a lesson for these talk kids out there so when the founding father builds a company i mean he just this is all he wants to do and then you give it to the grandkids of the children and the grandkids and all the research tell you by the time it gets to the third generation there won't be a company um and because you can expect it's like my dad he was devastated that i didn't want to follow him into sonic driving and you know he just couldn't understand it I’m like well dad you make hamburgers and french fries i mean really you don't think there's and my other next-door neighbor was a dentist Kenny Anderson and he had an x-ray looking through teeth doing root canals and all that and um so all these um all these companies these founding fathers same thing with us with a stock when the founding father of the stock dies um you better hold on to your horses because that founding father is not going to be um the the person that replaced them and then another thing um when that person leads it to the a crash in the ground and he gets refinanced he comes out of chapter seven he gets reorganized and it's the same idiot that drove it into the wall is now given the keys again and he's gonna drive it into the wall even faster next time so um you always that's why they always say start with the top work your way down but yeah um ken died a year ago but nicest guy in the world and um when we um when we'd ever go on vacations i would always uh stop at any dental company that would give a tour to my four boys when they were little and uh ken and JoAnne austin um his his um when he wasn't doing that he was restoring cars and he literally had a restored car collection that would uh i mean you know i mean i mean i i can't think of a bigger selection museum I’ve ever seen uh but by god that guy was a hundred percent engineer if you were to show that to ken he would have he would have uh helped you i know he would have he would have and and that's in there in Washington right in their companies in Washington right yeah Oregon uh south of Washington yeah great so um yeah i mean i think that adec should like you know buy we should like be one in one like buy a chair you get an a flex arm and and do you think that is going to be i mean again what is the most weighted reason for buying this arm is that is ergonomics is it aerosols what would be the most weighted uh versus you know and work your way down okay so there's two different ways you can look at it for sure with the hp system it's going to be aerosol and this is going to keep you from when you're using your your let's just say ultrasonic instrumentation as a hygienist when you're anterior where is it coming out mostly right in right in the anterior posterior great anterior aerosols coming out so this is designed to collect that aerosol you could use any modality you want if you're used to using a saliva ejector and hanging it off the side of the patient's face then then you can still use this apparatus and now you haven't changed your whole world or you could do use the a flex original and this and now you have freed up both hands the saliva jets are suspended and you can use your indirect vision and you can work ergonomically so there's a lot of different ways you can look at it if you're using a um you know an hve following around with your aerosol and you you know you don't you you don't get it and then you have this there now you have double protection that you're going to get that aerosol so honestly you can't go wrong with either or ergonomics you know they're both it's two in one like even with the hose like you could buy just this hose and save hundreds of dollars if you're a dentist because it's light and if you don't want to buy one of those pureback systems that you have to constantly spend lots of money on this hose you just follow around like that and it's a it's a no-brainer so either or both of them are aerosol control and ergonomics so let's see yeah let's go back um i guess um when was um when was uh david acker um so that that was the uh the first pando yeah yeah here it is right here under aids on downtown in September of 89 huh so i know you're a girl but can i ask how old you were in 89 were you when did you become a hygienist uh 2016 i was 40. I’m 46 right now so so when did you get out of school i got out of school at 2016. at 40. my god uh no so well how old were you in 89 1989. i was born in 74 so i was probably what 10 11 yeah i mean you're a hygienist but do you remember the david acker story about the uh the blonde Kimberly Bengalis who caught aids at the dental office no i mean i i no i don't remember the story so it was an entry story in 1989 college student Kimberly Ann Bengalis was diagnosed with aids no identified HIV risk factors except patient had dental extractions 24 months earlier by dentist David acker who was diagnosed with aids three months prior to treating Cambodia blood samples were obtained from the patient there was a high degree of genetic similarity between HIV but anyway this was the first virus rodeo that a lot of us lived through and then where i was going with that is um um back in that time those dentists in Wichita it's so funny how now would getting them to wear a mask it was like fat even worse trying to get them to wear gloves and i i could name names of dentists in uh Woodstock uh that got their 12-gauge shotgun out from behind their desk and told me yeah you the whoever comes in here and tells me i gotta wear gloves you know and because humans are just nuts and um but but it raised our game i mean we started wearing gloves we started wearing masks we we changed a lot of things and after the aids epidemic wasn't a scare deal anymore and everybody understood it the pandemic went on to kill 36 million people but all those infection control things that we implemented never went away and made it so much stronger for this second pandemic that um I’m working through now um this coronavirus what changes have you seen from the pandemic for aerosols and because hygienists um we keep hearing a lot of things um some of them are um very um against aerosols some some don't want to work in their office because the the hygienist in the room next door is using aerosol what do you what changes have you seen but more importantly what changes do you think that when the pandemic's over like five years from now when everybody's forgot about our 10 that dentistry will still be doing 10 20 30 years from now as opposed to what they're doing in the crazy days during the pandemic okay great question uh changes first of all the hygienist in general and i hate to say this because I’m one of them is a creature of habit we don't like change okay so the fact that I’ve seen positive that they're all starting to to get changed and they're all starting to look at things like an arm or something different that's going to keep them safe so they're they're very concerned about the aerosols um things that I’ve seen products like mine the you know the the big the big sections now are important there is a buzz on aerosol changes what I’m afraid of is that if covet goes you know goes dormant or whatever then they're just not they're going to be complacent but they shouldn't be because aerosol is there i mean there's going to be another you know let's just say a flu i mean you're still going to have an aerosol issue period and a discussion um those are positive changes that i see people going outside their box in their comfort zone to get different products and hygienists are inventing different products because of those reasons so um face shield better protection um better cleaning but then I’ve also seen people not using the aerosols and they're just doing hand scaling which i think is not an efficient way to practice so so you you you think um um uh ultrasonics are here to stay i hope they're they're they're not gonna go away because of the the pandemic and aerosols you use i i i i would hope not i mean i really think that they're an amazing you know instrumentation for us but no i don't think so that would be like saying the the hand pieces are going to go away because of the aerosol um yeah it's um it's not it's not gonna happen is it uh so yeah so um in Florida you know you're on the ground um have you what percent of hygienists um do you think have this um due to the aerosols and all that just removed themselves in the workplace and said I’m I’m not gonna do this and they're out of work do you think the the media is always trying to you know you never know what the media is doing but the the weird thing about the media is they can think one event that really happened like uh say um they say you walked out of the phoenix airport and hit me over the head with an a-flex arm you know and it was filmed well they could they could make everybody think that hygienists all around the world are attacking and killing people with with a flex arms but um um what what are you seeing in Florida um what percent of the hygienists would you say uh think this is media hype overblown crazy how many of them are really scared and how many of them are taking really serious and how many of them have do you think remove themselves in the workplace that's a good question i don't really have the answer to that i wish i did um i can't honestly say that i don't know the percentage you know of of of hygienists that decided to so then let's go to the other side the patient of the patients of Florida what percent of them is dentistry business as usual they don't care about it like my four boys they're 30 28 26 24 they would laugh if you i mean they they just think they just see it killing old people and they're like you're like dad i understand why you're scared i mean you're you know you're an old guy but i mean they're that time of life they're fearless uh what percent of the patients in Florida are like that right now um i don't think enough are aware honestly i think that i think that in dentistry as a whole i don't think the public is is understanding what goes on at a dental office even from the beginning and what type of things we're implementing um as a industry i don't think they're aware i think that when they go to the dental office if they hear something on the on the on the like tv do you have something for the aerosol they'll say yes we use an hpe we have that and that's true right this collects aerosol if you're following around with it so what's so there there's there's a way to get away from from purchasing a device that's like an extra oral unit not just mine just any extra oil unit or hepa filters or things like that um i would say that probably 80 percent no i would say 75 percent know more about air filtration throughout the throughout the offices versus at the source aerosol containment that's my guess that's a guess um in in as far as where the offices from um pre-paid damping to now as far as busyness and urine uh where you're out in Florida um are they back to where they were pre-pandemic or where that yes there's a lot of there's a lot of places here that are already full-fledged i mean we're in Florida i mean we already have the bars open here i mean i think they are in Arizona as well so i mean it is it's and we have a huge i live in broward county which is a huge epicenter for kobe like it's it's pretty high up there um and that's because we have so you know the regulations have been limited you know not limited actually like so are you are you um in your family are you pretty social distancing or are you more yeah we do a lot of social distancing because we have um we have our our family members coming working for us like they work they help us here this is our building so they come in and they're older you know our gary's parents you know they they help us pack up stuff and build arms and do lots of stuff so we have to be real careful wow so so how do you think covet has changed uh hygiene um as of now how do you think it's um do you think it's too early to tell only halfway through the pandemic i mean we're in november now so it's found in march so we've already lived seven months through it sounds like everybody's saying it's a 22 24 month thing how do you think it's a change hygiene right now well i think that there's a lot of people right now that are still only doing hand scaling i mean I’ve had several of my own friends say oh you know my dad went to the dentist and there they don't use the the the water thing they call it the water thing right the ultrasonic they only use the hand scaling so there are a lot of offices that i am I’m aware of throughout the nation that are just doing hand scaling and hygienists when i have sold the product and they've talked to my customer service people they're like so excited that they can go back to using their ultrasonic because it makes their lives harder oh yeah that would just be horrible if you took away uh that stuff i mean and the quality of the cleaning i mean if you think the cleaning is the same quality with that i mean it's just uh that's no way um i remember when we used to all do uh um hand filing and the first you really wanted to clean that root canal well and so i had a blister on my index finger and my thumb for five years of just doing that all the time and then when it came out with nighttime i mean not not only was it ten times faster but you could never have filed out the volume and you just couldn't have done it that good so uh it's gonna it's gonna be uh sad if it doesn't go um so um so is it mostly being sold um to hygienist or is it also being sold to dental assistants when they're in the room uh working alone okay so most of the purchases come from doctors and that's because they want to keep their hygienist safe and give them something that they feel comfortable with um so i think that at the beginning a lot of doctors during the during the rush of like my office is closed i don't know what I’m gonna get i gotta spend all this thousands of dollars you know to get back on into business and all that all the stuff that every practice went through um they used they bought different different types of products to help their hygienist feel comfortable going back to work and i think that some of them are still looking for something out there and you know we still get our sales coming in but that is pretty much you know where most of our sales is coming from a lot of hygienists don't buy them on their own i have to say um maybe it's a cost thing maybe it's just you know they're waiting for their office to buy it so i mean how many how many hygiene how many dental offices have you worked at in your lifetime good question um let's see starting with my uncle and then dr moreno oh dr nguyen one two three four five five and and that's very interesting because um i think that um you know the the dentist listening to you right now they've only worked in their dental office last five ten twenty thirty years they don't realize that when the uh the benco rep comes in once a week yeah she's seeing you know 20 30 other offices and it's the humble guy that can make her feel safe to sit there and say you know i I’ve seen this system work a lot better in other places you know once you put on a humility face and everybody will once that you you let everybody know you want to do better you want to learn how can how can i be better then you're then your reps start helping you uh your employees from the last office my my i turned my worst day which is when they give you a new attempt oh my god oh my god i hate that i mean you know you've had the same assistant 20 30 years and then you walk in there and some girl you couldn't pick out of a police lineup it's just horrible and my staff knows i i hate it but i i spin it around as a positive by telling this complete stranger uh that um i asked her like well how long have you been assistant how many offices have you worked in this and that and then you realize okay you've been in 20 30 offices routinely well then i say well obviously you can find i want you to find the top three worst things i do that you've seen better somewhere else and empower them and um and because because people like you get to see all these offices so what do you what do you think um doc who never left his own office what do you think doc doesn't know that other dentists are doing uh that would make him uh do everything faster better easier cheaper all that stuff huh good question um what doc doesn't know well i think that you know there's there's so many different things out there i mean you got well obviously digital x-rays you got you got you know implementation for you know root canal systems that are faster if he's a general dentist uh you got you know an extra oral unit that you could hook up to your own system that's affordable like my product um you you have you know there's different types of um things that you know software programs out there for dental dental you know hygienists uh that are efficient and and make life a lot easier uh you know i mean there's just so many things out there well one one um where hygienists remind me a lot is teachers yeah um to where um I’m gonna move the devil's advocate I’m gonna do my best to just really piss you off right now but i know you're in Florida take you three days a year all plenty of time to hide but you know the hygienist said you know let's go back 30 years you know they need an hour and so they'd start saying well you know if we went from uh hand dipping these x-rays to buying this real expensive eight three two thousand developer uh it'll save us all this time okay but the cleaning was still an hour um they said they said digital x-rays okay the cleaning still an hour that i mean it's like it's like no matter what you invest into the room it's still an hour and then you walk up to your height just like okay your next patient she has upper denture lower partial she only has two teeth how much time do you need an hour and it's like oh my god um so one of the things the same thing with teachers they um uh they always act they always want more money more money more money more money more money and then at the end of the day um they they solve the same class size in fact it's kind of crazy with um you already saw the working from home before the pandemic where you know like you take our office i mean we have 50 people five of them never come in and and so when we were moving more to home we already had those systems in place and so free enterprise was already learning how to work through home all the way from the last y2k bubble pop and it was nothing to ramp up um you know the the 20 that worked from home up to much higher numbers but look at the schools though um you know they always complain about class size you've been doing it through zoom i got a couple grandkids living with me to this so um you know for help and the bottom line is they when they want to back up they want to go full blown it's like well why don't you just have half the kids come in Monday and wednesday and have come in tuesday and Thursday once you think outside the box and you're trying to shove the genie back into that bottle that it never was about education or anything it was just about they want them in their building Monday through friday you know that they just can't think and um I’m just looking at all this stuff saying you know what is this pandemic going to do where the genie is not going to go in the box like i think airbnb is going to replace all these billion-dollar resort properties because uh you know so whatever the total value of all these resort properties is going to be is going to be transferred to airbnb and I’ve already seen that exploding everywhere with airbnb properties because now people are realizing it i don't want to go see an ice resort i want to go rent a home where it's just my infected family and nobody else's infected family unless you live where i live where it's all high rises you know yeah so so what do you so being in five um different dental offices and um and some doctors don't have listening skills but others what do you think dentists do the most where they're hygienists love to work for them stay on time live happily ever after and what are the dentists doing that's just so annoying and i want to remind dennis that you know this figured out a study just a couple years ago in medical malpractice some some statistician actuary and realized oh my god it's the same people getting all the claims and they realize that like three percent of the people they insure have like 80 of the claims and they figured out is just because they they they're they're i mean people would get upset and then they'd make it worse and other people had empathy listening made it better but um i I’m sure all my homies want to be a great boss they want to be a great leader what do you think they do right and wrong when they're trying to manage a hygienist well i think that um okay that's a good question i will let's go back to the time the time thing hygienists are educators number one i mean that's what we should be doing and they should be you know basically putting the hygienist into that position of trust that there is going to that they're going to guide that patient to ultimate treatment um i think that there is a lot of um i think you know I’ve gone through several different um management systems I’ve gone through blackford solutions so you got to remember these are all like you know I’ve gone through sally mckenzie who she passed away um and I’ve also gone through uh kathy jameson's training so to me I’ve been very very very spoiled okay and i I’m i I’ve been very fortunate that i haven't worked at like a a puppy mill type dentistry place where they just get them and get them out and let's just you know piecemeal these things together um I’ve been educated from from a different standpoint in dentistry and i think that's what most dentists need to do is think comprehensively and then train their dental hygienist and their dental assistants to think like that as well so in that leadership i think there's a lot of different um things that you could do i think you could do clifton strength finders you know learning about people's personalities going through this just training with your with your um companies or your your employees to figure out how to relate to the patient on a different level because it's all about um patient relationship and the hygienist and the doctor relationship and i think that's where there's a a skill lack there that's my personal opinion and and one of the and it reminds me the westinghouse study when i hear a lot of this stuff i always go right back to the westing and south study it that deputy talked about they the first thing they noticed and some guys that these people don't have enough money i don't have enough light to see so we invested a bunch of money so to increase the lighting and the productivity increased and of course but the the real scientists said okay well hey you don't have a control and if it worked going up well where's the control you know make it darker so they they set up a different nail and they went to a different factory and actually made the deal light um darker and that increased the productivity and they're like what the hell lighter darker and what they figured out when it was all over is that when the workers saw that management actually cared and was trying to help them by do you guys need more light is it too light just showing that you cared everybody's productivity increased and some some people do that really well and some people don't do that um at all but just just showing that you uh care and have concern and all that kind of stuff what other lessons would you say definitely um like you yeah that's a great one caring lessons um you know going to a lot of you know I’ve never went to dental school but I’ve worked for some pretty amazing aesthetic dentists um people that have gone through lots of different training oh please don't say it's jill wade is this another jill raid rant of how perfect jill wade is he did go through that but my uncle also did at a very young age i was i was taught um a lot of things that he already had done some fellowships in so i think that getting continuing in education and being excited about dentistry and going and and learning more about occlusion and things like that i think that's been very important very important because you can really jack someone's mouth up if you don't know anything about occlusion and so so there's another great takeaway so um everybody in the lecture circuit especially in the price mining circuit they all learn this right away that when you go uh give a lecture uh the right half of the room each aisle is an office you know sometimes they're two three hours deep and then the left side is all the dentists that came by themselves because they're saving money and if you collected their their 401k or you collected their uh uh w or whatever their irs deal this group's all making 250 plus and this group's all making 175 or less and they're doing it saving money and they realize you have to realize that dentistry is a team effort and taking your uh class i mean who's going to answer all the who answers most the questions about dentistry it's not even the dentist or the hygienist yeah the dental assistant yeah the dental hygienist the front team yeah and so many of them say well I’m gonna save money and not take any of those people on um what about um um what do you think um the average hygienist spends waiting for a hygiene exam um five ten minutes okay so five to ten minutes doesn't sound like a long time but that's an incredibly long time yeah what do you think of that um i think that that's not good but i mean what are you gonna do if you you gotta you gotta make sure that that dentist you know is this it's all about the scheduling i mean that's just been a time old like problem constantly and and and especially if you have two doctors and you have four hygienists and they're doing treatment you know you gotta just constantly pop in there um but yeah i mean it's that's always been an issue i don't know how to solve that problem to be honest with you well number number one one thing that i see and i see it a lot of times and um you know you'll do that where you're you're into office you're talking to him maybe you guys are going to lunch or something and a high just will come and ask for a um a uh an exam and then uh shelter around and then they'll say oh by the way i want to show you something it's like dude customers comes first you you just started a new thing your project after the exam and it's just um it's just it just takes discipline um and and what i did in my office is um um the assistant knows the best of when you can break the assistant knows when she can take over uh this is do you guys wear headsets we did for 20 years but it's it's kind of interesting where you know you have people uh retire move i just lost an assistant for 20 years um to Houston and her husband got transferred i told her i said i swear to god i'll pay for the divorce i'll put you up in a home uh you know there's an apartment complex right across the street and she's like no i want to be in my ass but because it's just so horrible when you're used to someone for a couple of decades and um so but um i notice when you when you have change of people you know there's change of systems and um you know and uh we used to all love that and now it was a big thing for a couple decades and now it's a longer thing how where were you sitting at net right now okay so no i think the number one rule and i i know this from experience from from a long time ago with my uncle's business okay i was very young i was really green back then you know I’m a young 20 year old person and and just learning that whenever he would hire someone new a system would change but you cannot do that you have to have systems in place and you have to be the oak and you have to follow those systems systematically and the person comes in learning the systems and develops the culture you have to have culture at your practice and you have to have a mission statement and you have to stand by what you believe in and keep a culture you have to have a culture you have to have a culture in your practice yeah and i think that's strong so so i want to know this uh you know to me the the biggest issue in dentistry is the hygiene capacity where you know where you know i talk about this all the time where if you um um if a hygienist works 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year she works 2 000 hours so you know forget perio and kids and all that stuff 2 000 hours means that she could see a thousand people for an hour cleaning twice a year well if you get 20 new patients a month you'd be adding a hygienist every four years and if you get 32 pages a month every two years and every dental is you walk in they've had that same hygienist in room one for the last decade and they keep and they and they get 30 new patients a month so you just mathematically know that if you have a cup of coffee and you pour coffee into it as soon as it's full all the coffee you pour into it or other coffee's coming over the top so for 30 years they practice where every time someone comes in new someone else leaves and um i I’ve always associated the number one cause of employee of a patient turnover is employee turnover and I’m in here ground zero and i just keep down all the dsos every time i podcast their their ceos at i I’ve lived here at ground zero and the number one complaint they don't say the facility i don't say the hours they don't say anything they go well god dang every time i go in there it's a different dentist and i finally got one i liked and then now she's gone and it's just it's just they they just they hate like like you said how hygienists are creatures of um they don't like change yeah well changing uh you know your cereal from you know cocoa puffs to pebble puffs i mean that's not it's the relationship thing that's a big deal and then i and then i look at why did they have the employee turnover because a lot of these dss guys say well god we offer them all this and that and it's the same thing i just bitched about you don't keep the assistant and I’m straight out of school and I’m already scared to crap about this molar root canal i only did three in school and they were all on typodonts and then i finally go in there on the big day and my assistant who you know I’ve been working with for three months and we're finally working together and she's gone it's like what the hell i mean they just want to go where some place is stable i think they'd rather live in a trailer home if it was a stable family they live in a mansion if it was you know if uh you know some uh eddie murphy ran it and it was crazy place right i mean you know so um why do you think hygienists turn over then why do you think they quit places they love is it just logistics like you moved from California to Dallas to Florida or um why do you think they quit i think that it's time um and disrespect like you know they're either either there's no communication with the dentist um and the pressure of selling something oh there's pressure of like oh you gotta make these numbers i think that's a that's huge um and does that come from individual dentists or is that um from a management like like a um an aggressive office manager is there is actually a clinical dentist in there trying to get you to make your numbers on selling dentistry i think that there's a lot of pressure on hygienists with making numbers for sure but i don't know if that's and again it's again I’ve been spoiled I’ve been work I’ve been great I’ve worked at great places so it's hard for me to complain when i haven't really experienced that pressure of a turn and burn feeling or hurry up get him and get him in and that maybe they lack the connection with the patient and so then they get burnt out because they're really not doing what they thought they were gonna do in school which was helping people there now they're just gotta go we gotta get this cleaning done i gotta make this money and they're really not doing that education that really sparks a sparks the hygienist i believe educating that patient is something that all hygienists love to do and they want that time and they want to be able to do it right and they want that training and they want to take pride in what they do but they're getting burnt out because it's just they don't have the time and then they're cutting corners and they don't want to cut corners i think it's a whole circle of problems in that and what's really interesting is I’m desperate people do different desperate things so if you've got a dock and he's overspending on the house the car the rolex watch he's got the trophy wife that stays home and eats bomb bombs and destroys ten thousand a month and all that stuff then he's in a truly desperate situation he's doing all this but the dentists that live below their means they're trying to muscle all this crazy stuff but they they work on the people time money they work on the people they slow down the the staff turnover and they do new new office tours new patient exams like when people say um can you do first appointment cleanings well i want a first appointment relationship i mean when that came in here um is someone giving them a tour of the offices um are you gonna meet the dentist you know if we see eye to eye and smile and we all feel warm and fuzzy i don't care we have a first appointment as a root canal or wisdom teeth or a cleaning I’m not into that but if you figure out all that people stuff then they stay with you you don't have the employee turnover you don't have the staff to remember i mean look at hoover dam you just barely build a dam on a river and you can't even see across that river i mean it's just huge patient retention is everything and um you know if you can figure out patient retention you don't have to do desperate things the problem will be when can we get megan in to get that done because we're booked not oh well you know can you try to convert that mod into a crown or can you try to you know instead of sell sell sell it turns into operations and logistics let's just be good logistics let's be good operators because we already got the brand and the brand is the the dental industry starts when a human being walks up to a dentist and hands them a coin to fix their tooth and that is expanded to two million dentistry and 8 billion people and it's that doctor patient relationship which i can see why walgreens could automate into a dso and and take all the pharmacists to employees and stuff i just don't know how you're going to do that and dentistry when they're you're you got to touch them it's all surgery you're leaning back they got to trust you i mean it's so easy for something to go wrong um a new assistant a new dentist and they're they're done and they're changing offices um you know um and size matters too size really really matters and i know when i say the smaller the better you're gonna say well of course you would say that uh but you know uh and the deal is um i i go back to the kaiser permanente that blew my mind when i went out there in Oregon and and spent the day with a director um after he had set up nine offices he wanted to pick my brain i want to pick his brain it was a mutual love affair but the first one was like a normal office like five uh operators but the next one you know you're getting bigger it went to seven and when it's nine by the time they hit the 30 chairs they had to have a complaint department and he told me and he showed me the math that you know for his walnut brain eight to ten was the cut off because once it got bigger than eight to ten people didn't even think they were at a personal dentist's office they thought they were at a dental clinic and he said in Oregon now it's a different culture they may call it some different Canada or Texas but but once all the once they pass eight to ten chairs everyone referred to it as a clinic they lowered their expectations of quality they were more easily to you know get upset with you and so if you could so i i think the counter to dsos is keep a small dental office with a bunch of employees that stay there till they're so old you have to take them out behind the office and actually put them down you know and uh because the vet won't do it and uh you know because it's illegal and uh all that stuff but it just go back to the basics um you want to go to a bar where everybody knows your name you want to get your teeth leaned by the hygienist who knows you and and then i won't touch on that for a minute because the problem we've had with this keeping the same hygienist is if one uses an ultrasonic and the other one uses some that um what is that um you know rocket blasting powder machine where you walk out of there yeah i mean even even when you go home that night and take your socks off you still find that baking soda and you're like how the hell did she get in my sock but the thing is the funniest one was when this first started happening we all had one hygienist all the patients loved her but we all teased her because we thought she was a butcher because whenever her patients rinsed out in the cuspadore back we have it's just a bloodbath and um she was on a pregnancy leave and the other hygienes were filling in her patients um generate a lot of complaints they get up front they go i i didn't i don't feel like it was a good cleaning and I’m like oh I’m sorry why do you think that you go well when i spit in the custard it was barely pink but my god when missy did it it'd just be chunks of blood and we're like ah and you think well that that's bad right don't you like this person who doesn't make you spit up chunks of blood and then hell no they they love missing a death that's the way she always did it that's the way they always want it they don't want they want everything the same but if they trust you you can scale them till they spit out chunks of tissue but you change that and they get upset they just they just don't do well with change that's very true that is extremely true you have to have your you have to have that's one of the things as a hygienist you have to put your ego aside i think that in general women can be you know catty and if you if you all just come together like we had four hygienists you know all four of us we we had we all were calibrated the same and we we never it wasn't like we're putting you on this schedule like this is our schedule you can only see irelia that's it like i would never ever i shouldn't say never ever once in a while i would keep my patients with me but i would schedule them on cheryl's or i would schedule them on hollies or whoever else just because it's very important to to mix it up and that was one of the things that dr wade was like very adamant about because you never know who's going to be leaving we know cheryl wasn't going to leave him because she's been with dr wade for 20 years but you know i might leave holly's getting pregnant you know there's different people that that are going to be circulating and if you you get all of your patients used to the same thing maybe their cleaning is different but your intraoral pictures are being taken the same way you have a system everyone's following it you're used to that same system no matter what it's just now just getting your teeth cleaned and i want to say something else about a jillway down she's a dds and she has her magd and and one of the reasons i do this podcast is because um when i was you know in phoenix you know it's a 3.8 million metro because it's not just phoenix which is a million people Scottsdale and all these suburbs Tempe mesa gilbert all this time again and there's so many study clubs and there's so many opportunities for cue but the one thing I’ve noticed is that the dentists who take a hundred hours of cue and i don't care if it's online study clubs podcasts don't matter but that habit i mean we all make habits and some of them are good some of them are bad and uh my god when you get that cue habit it doesn't matter what they go into if they go into cosmetics tmj whatever if they're uh getting a hundred hours of positive information into their head if you throw enough on the wall something's gonna stick and you don't know when they're coming out of school what that's gonna stick you know they they might think this they might end up here some people take one course on implants and swear to god they'll never do it again and then another guy will take it and it's 100 hours a year until he dies um you know um i hate cosmetic dentistry but not nearly as bad as pediatric dentistry i just don't want to deal with some 50 year old woman who's back on the the marriage scene and she's a fixer-upper and uh because all that craziness is going to go into the expectations of your crown and it's like you know i you need a shrink not a dentist um i love pain i love people are in pain they can't sleep they've been up all night i love that um as long as you're not crying and uh all that kind of stuff um for the pediatric dentist but when i see that magd uh i i don't care what it means to me uh same as a diplomat international congresswomanology fellowship mission whatever it just means they got a habit where they like taking ce and if you and the way i looked at this podcast is i podcast people all the time that are never going to be in your town in salina Kansas i mean you know it's it's one thing being in phoenix or new york or miami uh but there's people out there you know in a in the rural area and the downloads in around the world are are crazily insane and if you listen to enough people who love dentistry you're gonna love dentistry you're gonna takes away some of their ideas it's like a cafeteria you know i walk through the cafeteria i uh um you know some things you like some things you don't like but if that cafeteria buffet line law is long enough you're gonna find something you like to eat and it's gonna work and it's gonna make you happy and uh the main thing about the team uh that i see with the hygienist and everything you you said they were catty or complicated i grew up five sisters and you know destin morris all the anthropologists will tell you that women primates interact more with each other than males the male is usually just the idiots sitting there when you see any primate village it's the women are running around playing chasing feeding nursing they're just far more busy so that's far more entropy so if you have twice as many interactions there's twice as many things that can go wrong but but where the dentist needs to be the leader is this some people show up every day and they're always the same person and they're always pleasant and they're they get along and you have other staff where i mean every gosh darn month there's another drama day and i can work with you for a month and say oh really you're so nice and you're so smart and i love listening to your all this stuff and your ergonomics and your environment just love you to death but if one day a month i come in there and said really you've what what's happened my life um deal where uh jane you ignorant you remember that remember that you remember that saturday idea but you just come in there one day and said my god look at the schedule what idiot what idiots in charge of this and you're like damn dog and me I’ve been with you for 10 years you just called me an idiot and you know you do that and then the next 30 days of being nice and pretty isn't working and the dentist after the root canal he always goes in his room and shuts the door and he doesn't realize that the dental assistant's hiding on top of the break room refrigerator with a knife waiting for the hygienist to walk by and she's gonna shank him and it's like you can't you're responsible for all this staff turnover because you do not get rid of toxic people and um and if you can't get rid of toxic people because you're a smart dentist who still remembers the krebs cycle um you remember all the good things about her but that's not how people play and you're not drawing the line um that there there's boundaries and and there's behavior you want to accept and i'll tell you the funniest thing is when you go see a dental office that no one's been there for two or three years for like 30 years oh i i i already know what it is one girl's been there the whole time yeah and it's either that it could be his wife it could be an office manager but that person just has doc eating out of the hand because she knows she's got to win someone over and then she's godzilla on everyone else and and that's why you do exit interviews on your patients that's why doc you need to call your base and say oh really um gosh you never came back you came here for two years why did you come back did you move whatever and they'll tell you why and then you do that exit interview on your new patients um so it's the first time I’ve seen you in phoenix did you just move to phoenix where did you move from um if you still lived in your last place did you love going to the dentist there why did you like going there and then they're going to tell you their score card right there well you know i went to four different dentists in California before i finally found one that had nitrous okay there you go this is a scorecard and um you know or or it doesn't take the insurance or whatever whatever whatever but after all those things i mean if i don't know how you're thinking um kind of like when they come in with the toothache satisfaction equals perception minus expectation well I’m not going to start explaining to you a root canal build up and crown and how we're going to do all this stuff till i first know what your expertise are so i'll say well come on you were born uh you were born at night but not last night wha what do you think this tooth needs and she says well i know we need to pull it and add it to the partial damn i i know where we're starting at versus she says well i i don't want to lose that tooth i would die if i lost that tooth oh man i i just need to know your psychographics and the dentist is looking at the chart and says oh well you live at 201 north 9th avenue and he's going through all the medications and he's going all that stuff i want to know your psyche i want to know what um what did you like the most about any dentist you've ever gone to what did you like the least about any dentist what are you expecting to have done today I’m saying same thing with same day dentistry they'll tell you when they want it done today is there any way to get it done today well i'll tell you right now the only way you're gonna get a on that test and say yes and if you start thinking about the hygienist schedule or you're entitled to lunch or you want to get out early today you don't have the hustle and they're gonna find another dentist so uh thank you so much for coming on the show today uh thanks for going over an hour when um back to the news today it's election day it's uh the day after election are you hearing anything in Florida when they'll actually finally factually legally know i don't know yeah i haven't i haven't listened in the last few hours but you know what i was going to say is that's where you have to meet your patient where they're at you have to meet your patient where they're at not where you're at and i think that's a really hard thing to to to get across to new dentists and dental hygienists and dental assistants in general like you got to meet them where they're at not where you're at not about you that is so well put because a lot of these dentists are delusion because they go to some of these big courses where this master dentist have done all these amazing 25 000 cases but they're all on dentists the course is part of the business deal because his practice is all going to be full mouth rehabs because this dentist is convinced that only dr ace could do his tmj and all this stuff like that and and to value dentistry and inclusion all that to that degree well hell yeah you'd probably be a dentist to do that but when frank comes in he don't think about all that stuff so to sit there and go to those courses and they tell you well everybody can have that i remember one time i got just oh i almost got punched i was in a class um by um jim pride and he said they're saying you know i can't just like 1987 i got a school i got here i think it was in 1980 saying you know i see all these people in your patients they all have crooked teeth and dark teeth and why can't you convince them to bleach and and get braces and full mouth rehab and i I’m sitting in the front row with my you know my two drunk irish friends and I’m taking out so i raised my hand and he goes yeah i said well um you're actually a dentist and you have like the darkest brownest crookedest teeth I’ve ever seen in my life uh why did you never do it yeah i mean he couldn't even breathe like four minutes another one was walter haley in in the that boot camp in Kansas or Texas hunt um Kansas same thing i was actually when i took his course there was a couple of cosmetic gurus or david hornberg was there anyway like three guys were there who all said dude i'll do it for free they're so bad they're so ugly you only lectured a dentist and all this motivational stuff and your teeth look like they could eat corn on the cob through a chain-link fence and they're brown um why don't you do that he died with those cricket ugly teeth so you so if you cannot project the number one worst bias in the world is you project yourself on everyone else and you look at cars they go everywhere from a ferrari to a moped you look at houses it goes everywhere from a mansion to where i live in a van down by the river and um so if you think everybody's gonna um value dentistry uh they're not but um aurelia burn rd8 cda go to her website a flexassistarm.com that's a flex a flex flexx assistantarm.com thank you so much for coming on the show today hey thank you for having me it's been great