Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost.
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1085 Talking TruDenta with Patrick Kircher: Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1085 Talking TruDenta with Patrick Kircher: Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

9/14/2018 1:01:32 PM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 376

Patrick Kircher is an experienced Chief Executive Officer who partners with Dental Professionals, Salespeople, and Executives, to maximize the potential of every business and client. After spending more than a decade working in Sales, Marketing, Business Development, and Management, Kircher truly knows what drives the Dental business and its’ Professionals.  A coach at heart having been involved in college baseball and professional scouting has continued his passion for helping people maximize the opportunity at hand.  The practice of building lasting relationships that ultimately change patient’s lives through practices and products has always been the goal.

Kircher has spent the last six years developing his own Dental Service Organization.  Having hands on experience across several specialties has provided experience of what it takes to own and operate a dental business.  This experience has given him a truly unique perspective in almost every aspect of the dental business that is quite uncommon.  Kircher recently took the opportunity to sell his business to an investment backed practice management company to become the owner of TruDenta®

Kircher holds a BA from Lyon College as well as a Master of Science from the University of Central Arkansas.  

VIDEO-DUwHF #1085 Patrick Kircher

AUDIO-DUwHF #1085 Patrick Kircher

Howard: It's just a huge honor for me today it would be podcast interviewing Patrick Kircher and experienced CEO who partners with dental professionals, salespeople and executives to maximize the potential of every business and client. After spending more than a decade working in cells marketing business development management Kircher truly knows who drives the dental business and its professionals. A coach at heart having been involved in college baseball on professional scouting has continued his passion for helping people maximize the opportunity at hand. The practice of building lasting relationships that ultimately change patients lives she practices and products has always been the goal. He has spent the last six years developing his own dental service organization having hands-on experience across several specialties has to provide an experience and what it takes to own and operate a dental business.This experience has given him a truly unique perspective in almost every aspect of the dental business that is quite uncommon. Kircher recently took the opportunity to sell his business to an investment back practice management company to become the owner of Trudenta. Trudenta heald's a BA from Lyon college as well as a Master of Science from the University of Central Arkansas and you are right now in Little Rock Arkansas, my sister lives in Fort Smith when I was a little kid you know I grow in Wichita Kansas where it was the Arkansas River and and then you go down and you guys mispronounce it is the Arkansas River but my dad used to take me down where the Arkansas River we'd follow it down Kansas about six-hour drive where I met the white river and oh my god that was the best fishing trips that's the most beautiful country in the world is that where you're born and raised?

Patrick: No sir North Texas but I've been here for quite a while and your right it's some of the prettiest spot in the US for sure.

Howard: Well what's more beautiful North Texas or Arkansas?

Patrick: Not even close there's not a whole lot in North Texas you know that.

Howard: There's only two the two most beautiful States don't get any attention, everybody talks about all these other beautiful travel sites and it's really North Carolina and Arkansas.

Patrick: It's a little secret we'll keep it that way I guess.

Howard: It is a huge secret I'm it is just huge it is the most gorgeous area. So let's talk about first-year experience with your DSO you were in the DSO space.

Patrick: Yes so you know a long time I was an early Invisalign guy so kind of traveled the country there in the early days and then started research and kind of fell in love with the dental business and then started consulting and then I wondered if I really knew what I thought I knew so I figured trying to put your money where your mouth is I guess a little bit. So I went out inquired a group of practices and lived and learned bought and sold everything that your dentist buy and sell and or was it eye-opening from going from just your average sales guy to a when it's like behind the curtain was eye-opening for sure. So had a great run in it though enjoyed it learned a lot about the business for sure.

Howard: So when you said you start out Invisalign you met as a patient or you were working for Invisalign?

Patrick: I was, I was in early 2000s so I was there early or any earlier day so when we didn't have near what they have now and had a great run stock it 5 dollars and 27 cents so if you follow that it's a pretty good little run there for a while.

Howard: What's it at now?

Patrick: Three and change

Howard: You know I've been trying to get the CEO of that show on my show do you have any relationship with him?

Patrick: No I've been gone for absence before thereafter there was a change there but

Howard: Yeah I have to say about Invisalign that in my 31 years of dentist when I started ministry in 87 all the big brands of Colgate, Crest, Listerine it they're already mean if this line built the biggest brand in all dentistry in my lifetime and I've lectured in countries I'm in Cambodia, Indonesia, Africa, all these I mean it's it's a global brand around the world kudos of those guys and then the DSO so what lessons did you learn from the DSO space?

Patrick: Well it's a it's a lot harder to spend your own money than it is to you know take your advice and pop in and try to sell a product and move on down the road without really knowing what it's like to think I had 13 dentists and 42 employees at one time so needless to say I had a much better perspective as to the real-world challenges of the dream that you know when you pop in and you just see it all moving around you think it happens pretty easily but again real good perspective on how difficult it really was and the pressures and where to spend your money when and when you have to live with the repercussions of where you spend your money obviously it shapes the way you look at things for sure.

Howard: Well you know it's funny because when you mention this line the first thing you mentioned was when you got in in 2000 or stockist five bucks now it's 300 I think the biggest red flag in the DSO market is not one of them is publicly traded. I mean if there was a profitable business where you could go on Shark Tank and say hey Mr. Cuban give me a million bucks I'm gonna buy a dental office and in a year it'll turn into two and another year turn into for that eighth and they'd all be publicly traded.

Patrick: I would tell you that there is it's it's difficult as you know yes I mean mine was I just had my own kind of mom-and-pop shop if you will it still was a pretty successful and very rewarding but yeah I think you're onto something there. I believe it's not quite as easy as it appears for sure.

Howard: Well you know I love your hustle I mean when I look at you I mean you've been an athlete I mean you're hustle I mean the dentist that really really awesome they own their own practice the ones who don't want to hustle they all want to be your employee. I mean Sandy Perdue is one of the most outstanding practice management consultants in the world she says every time she's lecturing the owner of the practice front row taking notes and all the associates are back there on their iPhone surfing Facebook and Instagram and snapchat and it's just, do you think do you think a DSO is easy money?

Patrick: No sir

Howard: Do you think they'll ever be publicly traded?

Patrick: Not a wiz on the high finance world but you've got to think with all the money that's changed hands if you would I would really think that there would already be some mobilisation towards that area there does not appear to be some.

Howard: So when you're listening to me I know everyone listening to my podcasts is like millennial because I know the baby boomers aren't technically savvy enough to figure out how to download a podcast so they're all listening this old guy, just remember young millennials that just got out of dental school 25 When I was your age orthodontic centers of America was publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange as it dozen NASDAQ they all imploded and Wall Street doesn't ever want to see them again. You know when you go from one office to another office that other office is a lot of money and then you have to hire a dentist and the product is a dentist it's this dentist gonna sell the invisible and convinced Patrick that he has four cavities and then after he sells it which dentists will even tell you they're not salesmen then when he leans you back is he not gonna hurt you and then is he gonna do the work so that after the work it feels good looks good, it's so difficult to do and you really need owner-operated stores for any type of in fishin see and when you sit there and take the people say you know I really don't want to hustle I don't really want to have any skin in the game you know I just want a job well the whole high cost of Dentistry employed by a bunch of people who just want a job if it's not an easy game.

Patrick: No sir, there's a lot easier ways to make money.

Howard: Oh yeah in fact I tell people if you want me here I'll just say right here you're Invisalign, if you told me that you wanted to buy a million dollars investment at DSO I'd say well why wouldn't you just put the money in Invisalign I mean I just buy the stock Invisalign then when you wanted to sell your Invisalign you could sell it in one minute, go try to unload a 1 million dollar dental office they're not liquid assets and a lot of people who think Invisalign is what's the future of Invisalign, I'll give you another old man grandpa perspective and I was little big Catholic families in Wichita Kansas you know six seven kids is the norm only the ugliest girl got braces and it was a huge investment now the big families have been replaced with two kids everybody can afford braces and now you see 40 year-old women coming in ready to drop six grand on invisalign because they lent this to slightly change in this one slightly. So ortho has gone from you know you got to fix this girl up or she's gonna have to be a nun no one's gonna no one's gonna marry this girl to now just ever so people are going to have braces when they're in their teens and their 30s and their 50s bleaching bonding veneers and braces. All there's eight billion people on the planet half of our women and they're all they're all gonna want it two or three times during their life, so Invisalign stock would be a lot easier money than doing a DSO with a bunch of employees you don't want any skin in the game. So now we'll get to what so what made you buy Trudenta?

Patrick: Well so I sold my business I guess as you said as a hustler or one that tries to be is I guess I was at about six months when I was contemplating what was next and I've been involved in every aspect of it so I just opportunity crossed my desk and I kind of knew a little bit about it but like many people didn't quite fully understand what Trudenta was or was not and quite honestly one of the goals I hope today is is that we're able to maybe open that up a little bit more indigent and what it is and what it isn't but you know I kind of know where haven't been involved in the corporate side of where people want to go what the modern-day dentist is looking for and I saw a real opportunity for myself to take Turdenta as it were put in a couple spots which I think are opportunities maybe even missing pieces and then roll out a plan that was you know a company that a dentist could partner with and start making a little bit more money with what they know and not what they do. So obviously that that's a goal being a former on the on the business end of things because how do we produce more without moving the handpiece and tied up to doctors time. So you know at the heart of it we get a chance to help a ton of people and that's really where I think between those two I really thought I was on to something and I take it and run with it since December of seventeen so still fairly new.

Howard: Well let's you have the one video that I really really liked oh my gosh and I just closed it down what an idiot my big fat sausage thumb hit the wrong button yeah this video I think we should I think we should play now first of all like what is it and you have where was it on your who was it on your screen. I'm looking on your...

Patrick: Was it the whiteboard video we have?

Howard: Yeah the whiteboard video.

Patrick: Yeah it was on its own DRS doctor about half the way down and it's a bit

Howard: Half the way down?

Patrick: Yeah Trudenta explained I believe looking for?

Howard: Yeah read more business partners concepts libraries latest blog so it be under on DMSD explained?

Patrick: No it should be trudenta explain your jump at the white video when they draw it out.

Howard: Yeah what can you is it on YouTube?

Patrick: It is

Howard: Email that and then will insert that right now because how long is that video?

Patrick: About three four minutes.

Howard: Yeah it was a well-done video I mean I wanted to get you on the show after I watch that video I thought that that just explains it all. So now so I really like that video talk about that video and tell me what's got you motivated in this?

Patrick: Yes so you know at the heart of it we know that that you know unexplained pain by the moderate TMD; disorders there's just so much that I even witness firsthand of people coming in with with a myriad of issues and really not being able to trace it back to one specific thing or one specific bucket or category that it can be in but at the end of the day you know a lot of this is the kind of the basis of the DMSD which is dental mandibular sensorimotor dysfunction which is a long word fancy for imbalanced and improper forces in the mouth which leads to just a myriad of dysfunction and the cool thing about it is about one third of these are actually dental related and force related in the mouth. So the original Trudenta as it were was just simply a marriage between occlusal based dentistry and physical therapy the head neck and face. So at the heart of it that's what we do is we look to see if someone does have imbalance from proper forces put them through a protocol and just amazing how many people get better who've been everywhere and tried everything it's really enlightening and the cool part about its Howard is that the dentist is the only one that can help these people.

Howard: Well I love DMSD dental mandibular sensorimotor disjunction and if anybody should talk about dysfunction it should be me I should be the poster child Dental dysfunctional if it's dysfunctional. DMSD so how long is dental mandibular sensorimotor dysfunction been around and and the what's confusing about TMJ is the people know by D and the dentist talk to you no no it's not TMJ they know by TMJ they said you know they say well it's temper mandibular disorder you're talking about an anatomical joint well the people call it a root canal and the dentist want to call it endodontics on the patient's want to call it braces and you know everybody so what matters is that you can communicate with your patients and they call it TMJ root canal braces not a TMD and what's DMSD in your mind dental mandibular sensorimotor dysfunction how is it different than TMD and talk about that.

Patrick: Yeah so tmd,j however you want to term it is is really just a really small piece and honestly I think it's probably one of the biggest misunderstandings is that that's kind of what we do and it's really just a small part of it honestly as the program was until I bought the company was more headache based in migraine based and so you know at the heart of it is the theory behind DMSD is that if you have improper balances and proper forces in the mouth basically it wreaks havoc and causes dysfunction of the head neck and face and so for us it we'd only distinguish between everyone's symptoms could be different so it could be mild moderate dysfunction and a joint for you and it could surface as headaches for the other but at the end of the day those improper and those signals are sent to you know to the base in the trigeminal there and they radiate head neck and face and quite honestly no one else addresses those factors and most importantly most people either will treat with with a mouthpiece or permanent orthotic or something to the effect and never really get to the heart of it which is the actual removing the occlusal issues but also more importantly the rehab of the head neck and face you know we would never do that with a joint any other joint other than the tmd right I mean TMJ so it's just it's a really neat comprehensive turnkey program for you to treat a myriad of symptoms that are all force based.

Howard: and I see on your website this beautiful handsome bald man Mark Montgomery from Salem Oregon he was involved with this too or initially?

Patrick: Yes sir so you know at the heart of it when the company was been around for ten or twelve years Mark was integral in in coming up with some of the some of the finer points on the clinical did an outstanding job for years and you know we owe a lot of it to him and his research and he's done a great job for sure.

Howard: So how do you how do you make money on the deal I mean what's the business are they buying education machinery equipment services how how is it a business for you?

Patrick: Yes so Trudenta as it were was just that model that I described to you as I got into it I knew the opportunity and the center around sleep was huge right obviously it's a buzz and sleep disorders and when I started research the things that Trudenta treats I saw that most people depending on you know it was a very high number between 70 and 90 I hear most the time but if they have a sleep disorder they also suffer from the issues that Trudenta treats. So it made sense for me to I know how dentists like to have things kind of packaged and turnkey so we started doing a lot of research and and kind of coupled in sleep with the Trudenta as it were so in essence Trudenta 2.0 we were actually able to kind of do a turnkey package to where the dentist could partner with one company and treat everything under one umbrella that you know necessary medically necessary dentistry is kind of a tagline that I try to go with to where anything in the space that you're looking to treat migraine headache tmd sleep medicine sleep disorder all that within one system there. So we actually do sell a system included with training and an equipment that allows dentists to treat in-office or render these services and then we the last but not least we've actually partnered with the medical specialty network which is maybe a show in and of itself but we actually have some great results unlike the billing companies that are in the dental space right now where we actually partnering and getting great in-network reimbursement.

Howard: You also have on your website webinars on demand how many webinars are on-demand there?

Patrick: Yes sir it's been a little bit since I visited that one but I do know that there are 7 to 8 webinars I believe that are on that site.

Howard: Yeah another person is on your website is the famous Dr. Rodrigo of prosthodontist in Houston Texas is he still involved with your company?

Patrick: No sir he I think he at one time he was a key opinion leader or something I'm not exactly sure I did reach out to him when I started but I did not have any he's no longer involved in the company no sir.

Howard: Yeah so how could they learn more now with you would you have them go to the webinar on-demand or what would be the next step for someone listening?

Patrick: Yeah so we obviously have the  side we have tons of information upon our commercial side as well chilled intercom and most importantly we have the the webinar such as shooting the podcast now we have new online marketing materials and we have just a lot of really good resources there on that  it has a lot of educational pieces and webinars and white papers.

Howard: So what are they actually buying a marketing program a training is there equipment involved?

Patrick: There is there's there's five different pieces of equipment that are used to diagnose and treat you are getting an in-office training which is you know one of the big things I think that coming from my side of things from the implementation side from a dental practice is how do we get folks in how do we get you trained in your office I think in the past they were doing big seminars and I know it's a chore to get people out because I knew it was a chore for me to get ten people to fly to Las Vegas or to Fort Lauderdale to get trained so we're doing offering in office training which i think has really done a great job for the implementation side of things and you know basically it's a turnkey package where we allow you to diagnose treat and then gain medical reimbursement for all things medically necessary that a dentist would like to provide and wildly effective to because we only treat those people that we know we can help.

Howard: So these right there?

Patrick: Yes sir believes all most of them yes don't see all but yes.

Howard: Do you want to go through each one of those and what they do and and how much is this system cost?

Patrick: Yes so right now where the system has been at seventy-nine thousand that's been the same price for I think seven or eight years now. A couple things that we have allowed been able to do is we have great financing partners and if you're speaking in terms of ROI most of our doctors are in under a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars a month and we're seeing about five thousand dollars a case for a Trudenta case through our medical network. So you know having been involved and bought everything in a dental office that is a great great ROI there's no doubt about it and but the only flipside of that is is time at educational and integration is if you've ever tried to do anything medical you as you will know it's not an easy not an easy task sort ask us for sure.

Howard: So your dentist's instructor?

Patrick: Yeah so what we've done really is is we take we've taken the successful platform that we've had and the great thing about this is this is kind of where I differ from probably my days that Invisalign is we have a ton of raving fans for lack of a better word. We have source Docs and doctors who have practical hands-on experience at ten plus years that are a phone call away we have a myriad of you know ten plus on the ortho side 10 plus on the GP side of guys that are willing to take calls and give real-world feedback. So we have the foundation we really haven't in my mind with the the system is banked we don't need a dental officer a chief dental person driving it, we're doing more of the grassroots and quite honestly we've got all the information that we need we get a wealth of doctors that are willing to talk to people and give them real-world experience for sure.

Howard: It is a it is amazing you know when I got out of school 31 years ago no one was talking about sleep I mean it sleep has just exploded and I always tell dentist you know I'm sure when it comes to everything Einstein knows I'm sure that universe level mankind doesn't even know 1% of knowledge. I'm sure as far as all the knowledge about earth were probably at 5% levels I'm sure when it comes to TMJ sleep I mean to me it's obvious that it's very multifactorial it's gonna be a long time before we understand a lot of this stuff. I mean imagine if we were living a thousand years ago when Genghis Khan was I mean you wouldn't know anything about dentistry know about 2,000 years are 2,500 years with the Greeks I mean you know so I'm sure there's so much that a thousand years from now this is gonna be very different but what I liked about your analogy or what I liked about Trudenta was instead of saying oh we know everything and here's the cure it's like you were making the sports analogy like in the sports analogy they don't give you pain pills until you to go home they try to use therapy and I obviously when it comes to sleep and TMJ there's all kinds of different camps they all don't agree on everything which only makes me realize they don't know everything yet and it would be a lot more fun to practice dentistry a thousand years from now or 10,000 years ago when we know everything but we're so far from that but I I want to give one analogy that I've lived through. A long time ago a senator just passed away Senator John McCain in Arizona where I'm here and I remember someone asking him it was a very upset orthopedic surgeon when Congress started covering chiropractors and he said look he says when you guys cover it it's $50,000 when the chiropractor's cover it it's 500 to 1500 dollars and five years later both of your patients are still having problems in pain. So the deal is you know are you treating this faster easier higher quality lower cost more miniature. I see a shift that 30 years ago everybody's going to the surgeon everybody's getting flayed open they were getting their their backs fused they were getting all this stuff and then everybody lived through like wow that was invasive and it really didn't work and now I see this whole shift to more holistic more therapy can we do this without drugs can we do this out pain pills pharmacology would you say that yours is more of a conservative approach to TMD sleep all these stuff as opposed to when I got out of school and they were still doing. I mean I oral surgeon friends we're doing two or three TMJ surgeries a week, you never see that anymore. So is it more conservative?

Patrick: Yeah I think you're right on to it there I mean I try to say that I'm philosophy neutral because you know as you know and TMD or sleep or whatever camp like you said the camps are so polarizing and one doesn't like the other and vice versa so what I love about what we've created is the ability to to not you know for you to treat how you have treated into the philosophy that you agree with most but I'm with you is you know the ability to go in and just treat it kind of neutral and not not be subscribed to any one particular item but yes I mean Trudenta 2.0 plays right into modern medicine I think as far as people not wanting you know one of our tag lines is no pills no shots no terminal orthotic right. So it is absolutely right in line with where I think not only the medical world is going but certainly the dental world and you know you think about it I mean this look makes sense to me completely is you know if you hurt your knee on the ski slope they wouldn't put you in a brace and tell you that you're gonna be better as long as you wear this for the rest of your life there'll be you know without any surgery or any rehab of any kind of honestly that's where we are in the state of Dentistry for many things is who never really try to get to that to the root of the problem and you know they want the kind of the thing that we go along with is about a third of these people that suffer from issues that have been to every neurologist and TMJ people all over the country really comes down to the fact that they have a force issue that they've not been able to take care of and have never rehabbed the soft tissue or even began to look at that angle and I think that's a really one of the untold stories for sure.

Howard: Well you know when you get older like me and you've been in dentistry for three decades and now you have you know five grandchildren you think you know how would I want my little grandchildren to be treated and I wouldn't want to mom I wouldn't want to have TMJ surgery I wouldn't want him to have these aggressive things I wouldn't want them to have to wear an orthotic the rest of life. I mean and the older dentists they don't realize like when like there's threads on dentaltown I mean you just say holistic and most of them hit the roof especially the older ones but again the guys hitting their head on the roof and hate holistic they call endodontic therapy the patient calls it root canals they call it TMS or DMSD the patient calls it TMJ sleep. So they're attracted to holistic because when the consumer market sees allistic they don't like the medical model they don't want to go to a doctor says you're either gonna take a prescription or have a surgery and that hasn't changed since the medicine man model of 15,000 years recorded history where every tribe had a medicine man and he makes some lotions and potions out of herbs and spices or pull out a knife and cut something off and that model really hasn't changed until just about now and what's so funny is how actions don't equal words, these dentists my age hate holistic medicine but my god the minute they get high blood pressure do you think they want to take a pill every day the rest their life or do they finally join a gym lose 50 pounds you know start holistically treating and I always sit there and say man it sounds like you're starting to get holistic the way you're eating more fruits and vegetables and not eating pots in pizza and you switch from Jack Daniels to bottled water and you're walking it doesn't that sound like are you a hippie now are you you know you sound like one of these hippy holistic guys but man when you sit there and advertise on your website holistic no pills no shots no orthotics and you're trying to do more non-invasive holistic whole body stuff because there's a lot of stuff in that stuff too I mean it's gotta be lifestyle I mean how do you sleep well at night if your kids are doing something insane your going through a divorce you're you know there's their stress there's physical that you talk about there's your teeth there's so much involved in that and if we understood it a hundred percent then we wouldn't see all these TMJ camps they would all go to Wikipedia and say this is the answer so we're not there and that's gonna be another century or millenium away. So while my granddaughter's in your office today when you're operating under you know what you know what you don't know what you don't know patients one conservative treatment the other thing I liked about your video is a lot of dentists say well I don't want to have a TMD practice or a TMJ practice but everybody that TMJ practice she's gonna be married to a spouse she's gonna have kids she's gonna need fillings cleanings and they don't understand the ancillary business someone comes in to you for no pills no shots and now you got a family doing family practice.

Patrick: Right and think about this Howard, think about the way that like just forced in general you know even not being a non-professional so to speak looking in mouths although I've looked in many over my years but force is such a prevailing factor even for myself you know a great thing about Trudenta is it's not necessarily just your full-blown migraine patient there's a lot of people that give this a my own testimony I guess is all my restorations are on one side so did the decay all just go to one side I've broken the same crown three times I have large tour I grind. So you know these are things that are never even in the dental profession no one ever really connected the dots for me. So for the dentist or the dental professional that's out there thinking well I don't want the tmd practice or I don't want the headache or all the people that come with it then you look and if you look in the patient's mouth and how often there are dysfunctional forces in the mouth and how they wreak havoc not only on the dentition but as you do a little bit of research in this space which I'm sure most of them have you see how interconnected everything of the head neck face is and I think the opportunity to treat and help people and really have conservatively about 25% to a third of these people who have headaches, migraines, mild moderate TMD are all predicated on that improper and balanced force you take care of that you have a chance to really get to the root cause of the problem like you said instead of chasing around what with band-aids orthotics for what maybe shots teeth Botox.

Howard: And how long have you owned the company?

Patrick: So I've had it since December in full so I spent about a year and a half I was a managing partner early on and now I've had it all to myself for about since December 17. So I had a lot of success and you know there's 600 systems in US and Canada we've been able to kind of add to sleep and the reimbursement piece and now we're getting really good results and the business is growing very nicely.

Howard: Now just to review these are not advertisements these are not commercials, you didn't give me money to be on the show I have no financial connection to him, he doesn't advertise not nothing like that but I tell dentist all time that if there wasn't about 500 dental companies we wouldn't look like we were Star Wars with the Jedi Knights and all that stuff like that I mean if I didn't have MRIs and all the stuff I do so I love getting dental companies on there and when dentists say to me why did you have a guy that owned a company he was trying to sell something it's like shut up dude are you a volunteer or are you a volunteer dentist you do free dentistry on the homeless oh you have a dental office and you sell crowns and root canals so you're holier than thou but anybody who sells you stuff to help you do a root canal and a crown is a salesperson so you know it's just elementary tribal judgmentalism whole tribes have their own leaders their own customs are all cultures and they all think they're holier than the next tribe down the block. So you know I love the fact that I'm you spend your whole time in dentistry you spent your career in dentistry you buy your company dentistry I'm your biggest fan. So of your 600 customers what's the chance you know what I would do it I think your best marketing we do on dentaltown we've had five programmers will be 20 years old on St. Patrick's Day next March 17th I'm Irish I got ready launch we launched it on St. Patrick's Day and we have that half million lines of code and all that can be in a message board forum group and the message, you have your own private group so when you have a private group you can you be the one that lets people in or out or whatever whatever you can control the deal but the people it's the fastest-growing part of a dentaltown because it's free new whoever sets up the private group you're in charge of it like if I want to join you said no or someone one, because you always have about I would say I don't know it's only about one out of a thousand but a one a thousand people are trolls and negative and they're just miserable in their life and so they want to drag everyone down their toxic hole but what happened is if you got a quarter million people on dentaltown and they see this Trudenta forum or just getting in the post cases but out of six hundred I would say about 1% of dentist are super user social medias you gotta you know to get them to start a thread on dentaltown and start posting cases on this.

Patrick: Yeah that's really one of the things that I really appreciate about the opportunity because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding misinformation you know and to the biggest challenge I think Trudenta has had over the years which was implementation and reimbursement on how to sell it and how to position something that's not bread-and-butter dentistry has been the challenge and you know that's why I would love a chance to add a new narrative there you know and having a success and people who have implemented well and have started to integrate sleep in Co diagnosis of sleep and that Trudenta protocols you know we're seeing five to seven thousand and in direct in network medical reimbursement which has never happened before so I really loved the idea of how we reinvent the story for sure.

Howard: Well I just was the dentaltown and we have a search bar and I want you to use that search bar because that dan thing cost me fifty thousand dollars from Google and it's a box so anytime I want to upgrade it's not a software upgrade I got a buy a new box and I so about every four or five years when I want to improve the search algorithms I buy another fifty thousand dollars but I just type in Trudenta and the first there's lots of threads on that like Jim boyd remember Jim Boyd?

Patrick: No sir I don't

Howard: So Patrick is such an Irish name are you Irish?

Patrick: I believe a little bit all the above the German last name and Irish first name

Howard: That's the first sign that you're truly iris is when your Hines 57 but I don't think there's anything including farm animals the Irish didn't sleep. Well here's what I know about dentaltown you know people don't like buying through faceless organizations like you know when they're they were diehard Apple fans cuz they knew they knew Steve Jobs say they're diehard Tesla fans because they know Elon Musk and they see him smoking pot with Joe Rogan and you know right now on the deal and so they and the reason they hate the government's cuz the reason they hate the IRS in the post office because they don't associate someone like your face and your message in your brand or whatever and they the best way you talked about you'd like to take back the narrative and you'd like to control the narrative is for you to get on there and tell them this is me I'm Patrick I'm the owner of Trudenta talk to me we listen we're transparent and then to go back and get your 600 people use your system to try to join you.

Patrick: Engage for sure.

Howard: and what's great about dentaltown it's we have a report abuse button so if someone's out of line you hit report abuse button then we have a dozen dentists who get the email who are not paid who are dentists who are real-world doctors a dental surgery to judge was this a constructive critique or was this over the top and a lot of and I think that one of the most misunderstood things in the world freedom of speech everybody whoever says freedom of speech is usually a complete idiot because I've never seen it used correctly the freedom of speech is something that the Constitution defines between you and your government yeah you have freedom of speech to your government but you walk into my house in Phoenix Arizona and starts screaming at me I have the right to shoot you and dentaltown is private property and when you're on dentaltown gentlemen get disagree but top constructly fun talk like you were at a party and you guys were having an hors d'oeuvre together as gentlemen but when you come in there and you start toxically throwing flames. I mean we're going through this in the public right now because some of the bigger social media sites have thrown off like Alex Jones and things like that and people are saying oh yeah they're taking away his free speech I'm pretty sure Twitter isn't a volunteer corporation neither is Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook, if you're coming on they're saying a bunch of hateful stuff free enterprise has a right to throw you off. Now if you want to go stand in from the White House with a sign you do have the right to go do that but you stand in front of my house with a sign and you're gonna see a 12-gauge shotgun. So I would take back the narrative and then your logo is your face and they see that trudenta is actually a person and they say it's Patrick Kircher and then you get your other friends to come on there and what I want to promote more discussion of TMD because too many people that teach it always act like they know everything and it's like they know anything how come there's all these patients who still have this problem their whole life. So when someone says oh I know exactly what cures migraines okay well here's a thousand ladies and they're still suffering from migraines if you knew everything about migraines why are they so suffering they say oh it's this it's that it's chocolate look we're trying to help patients get through life at a time when we might I mean what percent of all the dental knowledge do you think is known in 2018 versus what will be known a thousand years now where do you think right I mean do you think we're even at the 80/20 rule?

Patrick: No I don't I'm sure or not.

Howard: Yeah and then when it comes to the universe I mean these peoples all the universe is exactly fourteen point six billion years I'm like if you even believe that you're dumber than a rock I mean for all you know or one up a thousand universes for all you know this Big Bang blows up contracts for all you know there's a million trillion infinite other ones just like I mean you don't know anything you're a talking monkey stuck on a rock that stuck in orbit around a star and you've never been you've never had a monkey set foot on another planet leave the solar system let alone the galaxy yet you know it all you know it all that's that's the definition.

Patrick: I was not sure what to prepare for but I didn't know we're gonna we were gonna go monkey and other universes that was pretty deep.

Howard: It is deep, I'm trying to share what I learned after three decades this for these kids a lot of when people email me and email me tell me who you are a quarter I'm are in dental school and all the rest are under 30 and I only get one email a week by somebody who's as old and senile as me and these young kids come out of dental school and they're humble after they go to this lecture it's some old guy with white hair who's just sitting there breathing like a fire-and-brimstone preacher just claiming he knows everything and I'm telling you they don't they don't know everything.

Patrick: That's a great point so yeah I'm with you is it you know each time I take them back the narrative and what we do and don't know is you know I know that even before me and now we get great results and that's never been the issue the issue is implementation and reimbursement which it is for everyone who's probably on this form that's what you're looking for that's what everyone has trouble with and the fact that I've been involved in the dental business there is no doubt that that is the challenge and so that's the two areas that we tried to attack head-on and I think we've made some great strides there but do I think one thing fixes everyone and the cure for cancer I certainly don't but I do think that a lot of these things have very very similar causes and the one that we can control is their proper imbalance forces in the mouth and what the negative that can fallout from that so it's remarkably effective if we with our protocols for sure.

Howard: So the bottom line is you know you have 600 dentists in the United States and Canada using your system today.

Patrick: That's how many been sold yes sir.

Howard: and how many do you think are still using it?

Patrick: You know being the new business owner I would be you know I've done my best to reconnect with as many users as possible it's just I really honestly have no way of knowing that but I think that based on the layout and the reimbursement I think the 80/20 rule probably would be in effect here as well just like it would be for CEREC or anybody else know. So you know but I'm not one to run from that you know I'm actually know what it's like and how hard it is and that's why I've made great strides to try to break down some of those barriers and being able to treat more people with one system and more more you know production per patient or problems per patient however you look at it it's certainly a way to do that and to make it more simple for the end user and ultimately Howard I think you know this is that selling anything that's outside of the norm for cash is a task there's no doubt about it, so they're able to be able to partner with people on the medical insurance side is is game-changing quite honestly and so you know I think anyone who says they have medical insurance also figured out is also probably you know one of those things you should be careful of but I think we've got a really good program and we're working hard to evolve and stay on top of it.

Howard: Well here's what I would here's my marketing advice to you you're a dental company owner, i'm a dentist here's what I would do is I would go back to social media studies and better matter we're talking about all the social media platforms Facebook Instagram anything social media, it's a very common that's only one out of a hundred or what they call super users and nine percent engage which means will comment let lol ask questions, 90 percent lurk and it doesn't matter what social media format your on because since we're social animals since they're so obsessed with how they fit in their tribe with their clothes and now they and their appearance and all these social stuff 90% just just they want to be invisible. Only one out of a hundred doesn't care what everyone thinks and so there must be something wrong with the superuser because they're gonna talk and if someone disagrees whatever they just they they are totally comfortable flying above the radar so since this falls under TMJ sleep TMD dentaltown has fifty categories and the bottom one the last one is at the very bottom because it starts with T is TMD occlusion sleep apnea snoring and applying therapy. So if you click into those you would see that under TMD that all these know who made the courses which dentists are the ones posters and what a lot of companies do is they try to network with super users they try to isolate like instagram like like if i if I was selling Chanel number five I'd want to find the Instagram chick who everybody follows on how to smell better I personally use two different deodorants want a different one under in charge but that's just my two cents like 3m ultra dense pulp them what they'll do is though they'll look on dentaltown they'll say ok these are these are I think Dan Kircher and 3m and pulp dinner some of the smartest countries under the second these guys these five ten guys ever either everyone's asking them the questions or they're posting all the cases or they're doing all the online see courses so you should reach out and contact the people doing all the posting and TV so what you'll get if they don't like your company you'll find out why if any of its fixable you'll see if any of its worth fixing and then if you find a product champion then you can work with them and say you know would you post cases or this or that or be your spearheader and I think the fortune 500 does it much better on like Instagram I think Instagram is where the companies go out and find who's the chick that everybody's following on makeup or clothes or this or that and sometimes them people will just email Howard Goldstein. I'm the other Howard is Howard Goldstein so he's and the I see emails all times say who are the chief influencers on say endodontics and they'll say well here here's the 10 guys that just can never go a day without talking about root canals and then the company will say well I want to see what this guy thinks about this new file or this new deal and if you get a if you get a 1% super user who feels naturally flying above the radar to be your product champion and there's no financial connection so people can trust them they said this guy just loves our product and he's always talking about it that's the best marketing you can do on Instagram selling makeup and shoes you know just sign you know that that's what I would recommend.

Patrick: I appreciate yeah so you know I like to say I'm a big boy I'm I love tackling challenges and know where the baby was ugly and what needs to be improved and I've tried to tackle all those things heads up heads up and heads on and just trying to make the company better and make the product better and you know at the end the day we get phenomenal results and we helped tons of people it's just the the implementation in the dental practice is a challenge we all have been there at all I've lived and learned for sure.

Howard: You were born and raised in Texas are you familiar with Mac Lee?

Patrick: Mac Lee, I don't guess so.

Howard: Oh my god Mac Lee like the biggest name in on TMJ, TMD everybody he's in where is he out in Texas it's a really small town of course Texas.

Patrick: In all transparency any specific philosophy or instructor in my career has been something that I have not how you expressed it earlier was how I treated it you know I didn't want to be but I'm selling and selling and selling is difficult and knowing who the players are are it obviously makes sense but then getting into specific philosophies and discussions about those and whose right you talk about religion politics and whose philosophy is correct on TMJ would probably get you kicked out of a bunch of...

Howard: I love Mac's quote people do not buy what they don't understand or do they buy solutions to problems they don't perceive to have, I mean it's just a great guy. I would I would start with uh have you ever heard of Bastrop Texas?

Patrick: Yes sir

Howard: What really?

Patrick: Yeah

Howard: Oh no no Max is in Edna Texas.

Patrick: Edna

Howard: Can my homies email you?

Patrick: Absolutely

Howard: Okay so what is your email


Howard: Mac is gonna shoot me when I why won't give his email out over the deal yeah of course Mac would even care he's

Patrick: You know Howard you were you were mentioning something they were just like just like the addition of sleep I mean I think there's we're just touching tip of the iceberg here on what what is interconnected and what to be done and treatment modalities and making necessary dentistry I mean you know I'm excited to take the platform that we've had and then try to see if we can't help more people with you know and branch and more.

Howard: Well you're from Arkansas I just sent you an email introduce you to Mac Lee who's probably the most prolific tmd TMJ poster on dentaltown and I think the next thing you need to do is talk to Mac Lee and you bought this company to see what you got what would be the best thing and at the end of the day when we water at the end of the day what are two million dentists around the world trying to do help eight billion humans get through life with this thing called oral health and try to keep them more healthy out of pain more function and I think that would be the next best step for you.

Patrick: Yeah and like say I welcome any and all comments feedbacks from all parties all walks of life to mean it only makes us better and you know I'm a blank slate trying to learn what I have and where I can take it and my experiences and those of others.

Howard: and if you want to go to Mac Lee I'm just go to dentistry uncensored type in if you go to dentistry uncensored Mac Lee I think I've podcast him a couple of times yeah he was number five seventy-two neuromuscular principles and congratulations on your 20 years in dentistry I'm I have kindred spirits with anybody who buys a dental company that's pretty damn cool that you chose our industry as opposed to any other industry and thanks for coming on the show today and telling everybody why you bought this company and what it can do and the six hundred dentists have this system in the United States and Canada and I hope to see on the message boards I hope how far are you away from Edna Texas?

Patrick: I don't even know where Edna I knew where Bastrop was but I didn't know Edna so.

Howard: Its right next to that.

Patrick: So probably six seven hours but nice little plane ride no problem.

Howard: All right well hey thanks for spending 20 years in dentistry.

Patrick: Yes sir

Howard: and tell Mac Less I said hi and I hope to see on the message boards on

Patrick: Yes sir thank you so much for the opportunity.

Howard: All right buddy have a great day. 

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