Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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295 Dental Videography with Stefan Klinge : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

295 Dental Videography with Stefan Klinge : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1/21/2016 12:13:27 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 446

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AUDIO - DUwHF #295 - Stefan Klinge

Watch Video here

VIDEO - DUwHF #295 - Stefan Klinge

In this two-hour-long episode Howard and Stefan discuss:

  • Endodontics
  • Corporate videos
  • Practice marketing
  • And much more!


Stefan Klinge is a general dentist with a specialization in endodontics out of northern Germany. He started his career at the university of Erlangen/Nurenberg in 1996 and switched to his own dental office in 2001. He developed his skills in endodontics since then, with several continued education programs national and international.. Since 2009 he shares his knowledge on roots, dentaltown, and other online platforms with the help of videos, that explains his approach to endodontics. In this time he became a semiprofessional filmmaker. Not only in terms of endodontics but also in terms of cooporate videos for his office as a part of his practice marketing and other dental professionals. He is a strong believer, that online education is the future. 

Howard Farran: It is a huge honor, today, to be interviewing a legend in my mind and a legend in the minds of so many American dentists, Stefan Klinge. Did I pronounce that right? Stefan Klinge. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. That's right.

Howard Farran: Let me read your bio. Stefan Klinge is a general dentist with a specialization in Endodontics out of Northern Germany. He started his career at the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg in 1996 and switched to his own dental office in 2001. He developed his amazing skills in Endodontics since then with several continued education programs - national and international. Since 2009 he shares his knowledge on roots, dentaltown, and other online platforms with the help of videos that explains the approach to Endodontics. 

In this time he became a semi-professional film maker, not only in terms of Endodontics but in terms of corporate videos for his office, as part of his practice, and other dental professionals. He is a strong believer that online education is the future. 

Stefan, the other day I posted 2 of your videos on dentaltown. If you go to YouTube, how do they find your videos on YouTube. 

Stefan Klinge: On YouTube they can type on Stefan Klinge or Endodontics or whatever. You will find me on YouTube with this topics. 

Howard Farran: How many videos have you posted on YouTube?

Stefan Klinge: A lot. I don't know. That's a huge one. I don't know how many I posted on YouTube but, in the last few years, I don't know exactly but many of them. Online education is, for me, the future because you can see what I do. You can see what are the problems. You can see how I solve problems. I think it is better to show the people how to do it instead of write it down on an platform.

Howard Farran: Do you know how to share a YouTube video on dentaltown? On a message board, there's actually a YouTube icon. If you go to the YouTube video and click share there's the link or it's embedded. If you drop that embedded into the YouTube icon, the video pops up just like it does on YouTube, right on dentaltown.

I'm a huge fan of you. I'm a huge fan of your videos. Are you filming all of those through a microscope?

Stefan Klinge: Yes. I film through a microscope with a camera. I started with a DSLR camera, especially this one. 

Howard Farran: What is it?

Stefan Klinge: This is a Canon. This is a Canon 550D. It's T2I in America. I started with that one and I changed to a Sony A6000 about 1 year ago because the Sony has more capabilities for low light resolution. You have the problem, if you look deep in the canal you have not enough light, especially with my microscope. I have a microscope with an LED light source. Some colleagues have xenon light source. With LED you haven't got the power of the light that goes deep in the canal so you have to solve that problem with the camera. The camera, Sony A6000 has a very good low light capabilities so I can look into the canal deep inside. That's the reason why I changed. 

I make it with the microscope and I record the videos with the microscope. I edit it afterwards with some comments, with some narration after it. I think the people are thankful for it even if it is sometimes not very complicated. For beginners, for students, even for professionals, it has some hints and tips how you can solve some problems. 

Howard Farran: You're such a videographer, filmer, producer. How am I even seeing you now? You look like you have a black background. Is that a ... Are you in a dark room?

Stefan Klinge: This is my black wrap, here. That is a black curtain because I have a very ugly cupboard and I don't want to see the audience the ugly background. This is my feeling. I want to show the people only that what they have to see. In the moment, it's you and me and not an ugly background. 

Howard Farran: Your videos are amazing. What are common Endodontic problems that you think a lot of people struggle with that you're trying to teach through your videos?

Stefan Klinge: In the moment, the biggest problem I see is the one file endo. The one file Endodontics that propose that you can do Endodontics with one file. That is [inaudible 00:06:17] that is [inaudible 00:06:18]. Great files. I don't want to minimize their impact but I never made it to make an Endodontic treatment with one file. I'm not able to do it and I know many, many colleagues that are also not able to do that. I think that's a big problem in the moment because this one file endo thing is a thing that is misleading the beginners. Endodontics is a very difficult thing because every tooth is difficult. Every tooth is different. You have to deal with narrow canals. You have to deal with curved canals. You have to deal with unusual anatomy. You have to find out, with your hand files, where you are going. This is, from the corporates, I would say, this is misleading the beginners and they try to do it with one file and they will fail. This is my opinion and I'm not able to do it with one file. I'm not able to do that. I need path files. I need hand files. 

Lower molars. The mesial lower molar canals, I need hand files because they are curved. They flow together and you have no chance to solve that with one file. That is my thing in the moment where I do a lot of videos. I didn't make them online in the moment but this is a great problem for and for others. 

Howard Farran: It reminds me of that very funny movie that came out 10 years ago or more, Something About Mary. This guy says, "I'm going to come out with a video, 6 Minute Abs." Then the next guy said, "I'm going to come out with a 5 Minute Abs." Then 4 Minute Abs. It's just a common marketing that they're always trying to get rid of less and less files. What file system do you like?

Stefan Klinge: I like Profile File System, the Protaper, and the Reciproc. That's the 3 ones that I use, and hand files, K files. 

Howard Farran: Are those all Tulsa Dental products - Protaper, Profile?

Stefan Klinge: Protaper is Dentsply. Profiler is Dentsply. Reciproc is V D W

Howard Farran: E D W?

Stefan Klinge: V D W. V. It's a German thing.

Howard Farran: Huh, can you find that on the ... What's their website? Www.

Stefan Klinge: V D W -

Howard Farran: We is W?

Stefan Klinge: No, no. You have a V. You have a D. You have a W. 

Howard Farran: DW. That's German. You pronounce that we. 

Stefan Klinge: V is ...

Howard Farran: Sorry about that. 

Stefan Klinge: This is a V. 

Howard Farran: Oh, V. Okay. 

Stefan Klinge:

Howard Farran: Huh, you got to put a www in front. 

Stefan Klinge: So, here,

Howard Farran: Okay. Okay. I guess ... 

Stefan Klinge:

Howard Farran: Okay. I have not heard about that company so I'm imagining that thousands of dentists listening to this in the United States have not heard of it. Tell us about VDW-, what do you call that, hyphen? VDW hyphen dental dot com. Tell us about this German company.

Stefan Klinge: is a very famous German company which produces the Reciproc files. This is similar to the Dentsply Wave One. They have similar working. A different taper. This is different. They are different files. Working with the Reciproc movement, as Mr. [inaudible 00:11:32] did make it a few years ago. He did it with the Protaper. The Reciproc movement has some very great advantages because, you know, files break very easily, especially the [inaudible 00:11:57] files are very prone to break without ... they don't say to you, "I will break in a few minutes." The [inaudible 00:12:08] files are very sensible to breakage.

The Reciproc movement is one that they don't turn 360 degrees. They turn two thirds forward and one third backwards. They don't reach that critical bending of damage. They won't break as easily as other files. That is the Reciproc idea. 

I hope I explained that right. 

Howard Farran: You explained that very well. You know, Stefan, in the United States Dentsply, Tulsa Dental products, is so huge. I had never even heard of this. I wish you would make an online course for dentaltown using this Reciprocating file that alternates between clockwise and counter-clockwise motion. That might be very interesting. If you did a course on that at dentaltown, I'm sure the company would appreciate it. I'm sure, most dentists on dentaltown, it would probably the first time they've ever heard of this file. 

Stefan Klinge: That is surprising for me because VDW is a large German company but I didn't know that it is unknown in the States. I know that the Dentsply, Tulsa Dental in America. They have the Wave One file. It works similar. It's the same procedure. It's the same thing that you have to make this counter-clockwise and clockwise rotation. I tried both. In my hands, the Reciproc from VDW works better. Don't ask me why. 

If you ask Endodontist, what file do you use? They have their preferences. They have their personal preferences because they've tried a lot. I've tried a lot and, for me as a traditional list, I would say the Profiler, which is a very old system that came out in 1969, is the best system today. In combination with other files and hand file. The Profiles are not so easily to break because they are forgiving a lot of failure you make as a dentist with your root canal treatment. I think it is a very great thing. It is still on the market. You have seen so many file systems on the market and they [inaudible 00:15:25] them or they are unknown or they are seldom used. Profile, for my opinion, is, even today, the best file system I can imagine. It's forgiving so much [inaudible 00:15:42] that you do as a dentist. 

Howard Farran: Just like Tulsa Dental Products, I also see that they also have a Gutta-Percha Obturator on a carrier. Do you like Gutta-Percha on a carrier for Obturating too?

Stefan Klinge: Okay. Years ago I used the old system which has resigned core and was covered with Gutta-Percha. The modern product from Dentsply is Gutta-Percha which has a smoother Gutta-Percha on the outside and a harder Gutta-Percha on the inside. You can lead the Gutta-Percha into the canal that you have, likewise behavior like you do the vertical compaction. I don't use it anymore. I haven't tried that one with the hard Gutta-Percha cone til now because in 2011, it might be 2011, I changed to vertical compaction, like [inaudible 00:17:14] did, and I never would use any other thing. I has so much advantages. You can control your pressure. You can control the Gutta-Percha. You can control everything, your taper. You can control how much pain you will make to the patient. If you push this core of the Gutta-Percha into the canal with one Gutta-Percha core, you haven't got the pressure control. You avoid the overfilling of the canal, the over-pressing. Do you know what I mean?

Howard Farran: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Stefan Klinge: Yeah. You have very, very good control about the filling of the Gutta-Percha and this is a great advantage. The Schilder described in 19-- ... I don't know, between 60 and 70. I don't know exactly but Schilder was such a genius. What he developed and what he thought about the root canal anatomy. The principles about pressure and fluid and something like this. It was amazing, really. If you read the original article of Schilder, it will widen your eyes, if you have a passion for Endodontics. 

Howard Farran: He was an amazing man, Herbert Schilder. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. 

Howard Farran: You have YouTube videos on this warm Gutta-Percha compaction. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes, I have some videos of this compaction of the warm Gutta-Percha. There are some tips also. If you push down the Gutta-Percha with your plugger, you have to hold the pressure for an amount of time because Gutta-Percha has some compaction of the Gutta-Percha when it cools down. You have to hold your plugger long enough. You won't release your pressure before the Gutta-Percha has cooled down and then you can confirm that the form that the Gutta-Percha will take of the canal will be the same of the canal anatomy. I hope I did explain that okay. My English is ...

Howard Farran: No, no. I think you're English is amazing. If you were interviewing me in German, I could not say one word. I don't know one word of anything. I know a little bit of Spanish because I live about 100 miles from mexico and about 25 % of my patients speak Spanish as a primary language. I know a little bit of Spanish so I find it amazing. 

I did not know, when you were telling me We D W, when you were saying We, I was thinking W E. In German, a V is pronounced WE?

Stefan Klinge: It's [inaudible 00:20:54]. 

Howard Farran: It's what?

Stefan Klinge: [inaudible 00:20:56]. In Germany it is [inaudible 00:20:59]. 

Howard Farran: Huh. Okay, yeah. When you were saying We D W, I was thinking that you were doing W E D W. I didn't know that you were saying V D W. I think that's interesting. I'm so amazed that I'm sitting here at 12 o'clock noon on a Friday and you're all the way in Kiel, Germany. What time is it there?

Stefan Klinge: It's 19 ... It's about 8 o'clock PM. 

Howard Farran: 8PM. I just think that's so cool. Where is Kiel? K I E L, Germany. 

Stefan Klinge: That's north in Germany. That's about 100 kilometers above Humberg. 

Howard Farran: Yeah. My favorite dental convention in the world, I go to Cologne, Germany every other year to the, what is it called? 

Stefan Klinge: IDS. 

Howard Farran: IDS. International Dental ...

Stefan Klinge: I missed it last year because I wanted to film some microscope companies but I have a yes from Global, I had a yes from Zeiss, but they didn't have some people that can do the interview. I had a yes from 2 companies for microscopes. It wasn't interesting for me because, at least, I might have 4 or 5 companies to be comparable. Filming is also always a thing that you are believable. You don't know he is Zeiss man, he is a Global man. He does only advertising for Zeiss or he's advertising for Global. I wanted to have at least 5 or 4 microscope companies that I could have interviewed but it was not possible. Maybe next year. 2017 is the next IDS in Cologne. 

Howard Farran: That will be IDS, International Dental Show. Cologne. The next one is March 21-25, 2017 or March 12-16 in 2019. It's the most amazing show. I love Germany. Compared to the United States, it is so much more cleaner, and organized. I love the train system. You probably don't know this because you live in Germany. When you come from the United States and you buy your IDS ticket. That 5 day ticket for the show is a train pass. They'll even put you in first class. 

I just got to say one thing, they'll always see your ticket and they'll say, "Oh, you get to go to the fast expensive train." You don't want that because it's a lot faster. You're going 100 miles an hour and you can't see anything. You're in a lot of tunnels. I like to use my pass on the low cost, old trains that are slow and winding by the rivers. It is so scenic and beautiful. When you try to get on those trains, the Germans are always trying to help you and say, "Oh no, no, no. You have a first class ticket. You can go on the really fast train." I'm like, "I don't want a fast train. I want to see the country and see everything." It is so cool. 

Stefan Klinge: If you would live in Germany, you would have experienced some problems with our train system. The Deutchban, the German train rail isn't as punctual as we liked it. They are always late. They are late to come into the train station and they are late to receive the other train stations. This is a great problem for the German train system because they are always late. 

As I made my curriculum for the TGET, that's The German Society of Endorontology and Traumatology, I was forced to go from her to Dusseldorf once a month. I always cam e too late back. The bad thing was, with the train, that it had a stop about 2 hours on the train station, on the gate, because one of the wagons in the middle was broken. They had to change them but they didn't change them. They removed this wagon and put the other wagons together, then the other passengers had to make this one to have place. Not all is very organized in Germany but the most. 

Howard Farran: I've been to 50 countries. I think it's the most organized country on earth. I think it's more high-tech, it's more organized. When you go to Germany, you think of [inaudible 00:26:50] and when you go to America, you think of Chevy.

Stefan Klinge: Chevy is not a bad brand. When I see a Chevy here in Germany, I say, "Hmm, hey, a Chevy."

Howard Farran: In America, some cities have a subway system or local train system, but we don't have one for the country. In America, you would have to be at a airport and the airports are 10 times crazier in America than the German train system. Cancelled flights, the weather changes. It's a crazy system. 

I want to go back to your YouTube videos because, if you're listening to me right now and you want to see some, not only amazing Endo, but just videos. You feel like you're sitting inside the tooth. Talk about, what are your most famous, most viewed YouTube videos and why do you think they were viewed the most? Do you think it was the case selection, the problem you were teaching? What are your most viewed YouTube videos and what were you teaching and why do you think they were the most popular?

Stefan Klinge: I have some YouTube videos that are seen most than others. I don't know why exactly because I do always the same. It is different because I have YouTube videos that are made for patients and I did YouTube videos that are made for colleagues. It is messed up a little bit on my YouTube channel. This is a great disadvantage. I tried to change that. It's a matter of time to make a different YouTube channel only for patients. I have 3 YouTube channels in the moment, one of my practice, one of my education videos, and one of my cooking videos. This is another story. I think the patient videos, in the moment, have more viewers from that of the colleagues but there are a few that have more views from the colleagues. I don't know exactly why. 

I tried to figure out why they have more views with the YouTube analyzers and where they come from. The most viewers from the educational videos come from India. I think India is a very great country and they are very, very, very dedicated to ... They want to learn. They want to learn from others and they want to be better than others. This is a great advantage from the Indian people, that they want to learn from the ones that know how to do it. 

Maybe you remember [inaudible 00:29:58], this is a Portuguese colleague. In the beginning of 2015, he made the first Endo-congress online. Do you remember?

Howard Farran: Yes.

Stefan Klinge: He also told me that a lot of people, a lot of online viewers, came from India. I think this is kind of a market because YouTube videos are nice and it's cool but, on the other hand, you don't earn any money with it, with YouTube videos. If you want to have ... now I come to online education. Online education is, from my opinion, is the future. Not only because it is available 24/7 but it is a thing that you can reach the world with it. Not only India, you can reach Russia, America, Mexico, South America. There are so many people that want to learn but they can't because they can't travel, they are not able to travel worldwide like other colleagues do it. Maybe they can't pay the fee for a live course or a hands on course. Online education really is a real thing that the future will show. 

On YouTube, you get some clicks and a little bit of advertising from YouTube. You get 1 cent or 2 cents or whatever. That isn't the amount that you have to earn when you do online education professionally. It's not only the time that you stand for the camera. You have to prepare your lecture. You have to sort out some pictures. You have to do videos and some things like that. When you make a one hour lecture, you want to earn a little amount of money to compensate your time. All the way, for me in the moment, this is a trial to make it on vimeo. 

Vimeo has the possibility that you can sell your videos for any amount of money you want. It begins from 99 cents and ends wherever you want. If you can make the people know that you have the lecture online on vimeo and they have to pay 3 dollars, 5 dollars, 10 dollars, whatever, then they are able to see it, to click on it and pay 10 dollars. That's another thing instead of travelling to wherever and then you have to pay your accommodation, you have to pay the flight, you have to pay your, how do I say it. If you are not in your office, you loose money every hour. An average office will have costs about 200 to 300 dollars an hour. 

Extreme, extreme example. You come from Australia and travel to Germany. The travelling time is 2 days at least because you have to stop in Asia and then go to Germany and then go back so that's 4 days. You have 1 day of lecture whether you lecture yourself or you attend any lecturing. You have 5 days. Average cost per hour for your office hour is 200 dollars. That's 8000 dollars for 1 week. 8000 dollars. Additional to that you have to pay your accommodation and you have to the flight and you have to pay your meals. That may be 10,000 dollars. If you can spend 10,000 dollars for a week of 1 day lecture, it's okay. Congratulations. But I can't.

I think this is a very great advantage of online education because you go to the screen and you will hear what they say. Rupper Dacosta made it on the point. He made it 1 week. I don't know exactly but we had 20 or 30 lectures on different topics, it's mostly Endodontics but you were not forced to travel and you paid nothing. You paid afterwards when you wanted to see it outside of the congress time. This was 350 dollars for all the 40 lectures, that is ridiculous. 

Howard Farran: What year was that? What year was that?

Stefan Klinge: I have also lectured one of those things there from Rupper Dacosta. I did about ultrasonics and endodontics. I had a 1 hour lecture. All lectures were 1 hour long. There are 40 lectures. That's 40 hours for nothing or 250 dollars without travelling. You have to be on your family. You not have to leave your family. 

Howard Farran: Is that on a website right now?

Stefan Klinge: No, it's over. It was in march if I remember right. You have to subscribe to the online congress. You were able to subscribe for the recordings but the time is over. 

Howard Farran: What was that website though? 

Stefan Klinge: I have to figure out that. I can send you. 

Howard Farran: Yeah, email me that website. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. I will do that. I saw on Facebook that other colleagues will copy that in the next future and they also will do online congresses. Not in the case that you see the audience and your lecturer in the front on the stage, but there are lecturers that pre-record their lecture for an hour or so and then it will be shown on a paid basis or an unpaid basis. Rupper Dacosta had made it online live for nothing and then if you wanted to see the recordings, you had to pay amount of money. The maximum was 250 dollars. That's ridiculous. 

Howard Farran: Please email me that. The other thing, traveling around the world I've met so many dentists in Africa and India and china. They just love this because it's such a low cost way. I'm always telling dentists, "Why are you going to a weekend course that costs several thousand dollars when on an online course you could have learned it for 18 dollars, sitting in your own home without a [inaudible 00:38:44]."

I'm going to switch to another change in dentistry. I think one of the overlooked things is these fiberposts. When I was in school in the 80's, it was all metal posts, para posts. You're seeing more and more research on fiber posts. What are your thoughts on fiber posts.

Stefan Klinge: Fiber posts, in the front tooth region are have very many advantages because of the colorizing. If you put a metal core in a tooth, you will always see this metal through the root. If your [inaudible 00:39:30] will diminish a little bit and then you have this dark root and they have to bleach that or whatever you have to do. It is better to do. When you do the root canal treatment, then you have to bleach this tooth a little bit because if the root canal problem is a little bit older you will see that the tooth has a little bit .... hey, what's that?

Howard Farran: My cat, [inaudible 00:40:02], gets mad when I stare at you on a screen and not give her any attention. Sorry about that. Just pretend it's a fiber post.

Stefan Klinge: I love cats. 

Howard Farran: Oh my gosh. I've got 2 of them. I'm one of those crazy cat people. I can't believe she's sitting there, looking at the screen. How funny? Now you have to lecture to me and [inaudible 00:40:26]. 

Stefan Klinge: But you don't publish cat videos on YouTube. 

Howard Farran: There's the official cat video. 

Stefan Klinge: This is a very, very, very nice cat. Can I see the face again?

Howard Farran: Say hi, [inaudible 00:40:43].

Stefan Klinge: Isn't it nice? I like it. I like this cat. 

So fiber posts. 

Howard Farran: Fiber posts.

Stefan Klinge: So fiber posts. The problem with fiber posts are that you always have to have in mind that your fiber posts have a little bit thicker, in my opinion and in my experience, they have to be a little bit thicker than you would use with a titan post. I have seen a lot of cases where the fiber posts broke. Then I have to figure out why did they broke because they are stiff. You can't break it with a hand or with a, I don't know the word now. Sorry, but you can't break it. The mouth is able to break it because the mouth has a very, very large amount of force when you bit things. You have to have in mind that if you want to use a fiber post you have to probably use a bigger one in the front tooth or in the molar region because the forces that your jaws are able to make are extreme. I think you won't underestimate the force that they are able to do. 

In the lower molar region, if I have to put into place a post I tend to make titan posts. In the front region, I tend to place fiber posts but the bigger ones. It isn't a great disadvantage because if you know that the root canal on the front teeth are always big then it is not such a problem to place such a big fiber post. 

Howard Farran: What type of fiber post? Which brand do you like or do you use the most?

Stefan Klinge: The German company comes again, that's VDW. 

Howard Farran: Okay, so they make those too.

Stefan Klinge: Yes. They have fiber posts that, when you cool them down, they change the color. If you ever have to remove such a fiber post you can cool them down and you can different shade them from the tooth from the dentin. They change the color if you cool them down. This is a great advantage. I don't know if any other brand has this advantage. 

Howard Farran: Which one? I see they have quartz fiber post, perma-tex post, perma-dor post, perma-tex/perma-dor instruments. Are you talking about the quartz fiber post?

Stefan Klinge: Let me see. I see [inaudible 00:44:20]. Let me see. Wait a minute. Let me see. Wait a minute. Root canal drying, Obturation, Postendodontic. 

Howard Farran: I love the website, talking about the history of the fiber post. The history of the root canal fiber post begins in 1983 with [inaudible 00:44:56] and continues with [inaudible 00:44:59] who, in 1988, invented the compositable system which incorporates carbon fibers and an epoxy resin[inaudible 00:45:07]. You're mostly using those in anteriors?

Stefan Klinge: Yes. It is DT illusion XROSL. The quartz fiber post with patented color-on-demand. Tried, tested, and ... Can I send you a link?

Howard Farran: Yes, absolutely. 

Stefan Klinge: On Skype? Yes, here, I can see. 

Howard Farran: You just email it to me after the interview.

Stefan Klinge: I sent you the link via Skype. Maybe you can see that, I sent you the link for it. This is the kind of fiber post I use most because I have the opportunity, if I really have to remove this post in case, I cool them down and I know they will change the color. I can exactly distinguish which is the dentin and which is the fiber post, then I can remove it. 

Howard Farran: If you go to, that post is actually made by another company. It's made by Is that why they call it DT Illusion?

Stefan Klinge: DT Illusion, yes. I don't know exactly. I think it is made by VDW but it's DT Illusions.

Howard Farran: Do you use these in posterior molars for post build ups or are you using traditional titanium or metal?

Stefan Klinge: In molars I use traditional titanium. 

Howard Farran: Why is that? Just because it's stronger?

Stefan Klinge: Yes, it's stronger, in my opinion. That's my experience that the fiber posts have a tendency to break if you don't choose a really big one. In the front tooth it's not a problem because the pulp, the canal is naturally big, in the front tooth. In the molars you don't always have a big space for it so I tend to use titanium posts if I have to. I seldom use them because I think ... There is a different discussion about the post. Having to do a post in an Endodontic treated molar or front tooth or [inaudible 00:48:17]. The tendencies not to use any post at all. 

Howard Farran: I want to switch gears to magnification. What percent of the root canals do you do that you use a microscope?

Stefan Klinge: Every root canal. 

Howard Farran: To these dentists that you're talking to, do you think it's worth buying a microscope? Do you think it's worth the investment? How much better would their Endodontic success be if they bought a microscope?

Stefan Klinge: Okay. I understand the question. First of all, there is a discussion about do I have to use a microscope to do an Endodontic treatment. I would say, if I wouldn't have a loop ... If you don't use a loop and you don't use a microscope, it might be heavy. With the naked eye, I'm not able to do an Endodontic treatment anymore. I use a loop, I use a microscope, and I use the microscope as often as I can especially in the last years. I use it always. I can't do it without because, you know Forest Gump the film?

Howard Farran: Yes. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. He said, "Life is just a box of chocolates and you never know what you're going to get." I would change that quote a little bit and say, "A painful tooth is like a box of chocolates and you never know what is inside." Every tooth has to tell you a story but you have to see it. If you open a tooth and you have a naked eye you will see blood and a little bit of nerve tissue. The tooth is telling you a story and this story you can only see and read if you read the root anatomy. You can only read the anatomy, in this case, with at least loops or a microscope. You have ways that lead you to the canal entrances. You often have teeth with operations, with denticles, with calcifications, or whatever. You are not able to find any canal because you can't read the structure of the tooth without a loop or without a microscope. The tooth will lead you to the right position where the entrances are. This special tooth, it will tell you a story, it's own story. You will see calcifications. You will see, okay, this tooth had a long history or a short history. Does it bleed like hell or is dead? Does it bleed anymore? You can change your treatment. You will only see that with magnification. This is my opinion, my special opinion.

This has to do with passion. Endodontic treatment is some sort of passion because you have to be a little bit crazy to do that. 

Howard Farran: What microscope do you have? Do you mount it on the ceiling or do you wheel it into the room? What is the brand name and how much does something like that cost?

Stefan Klinge: I have a Global microscope. This is an American brand, a used brand, a very common brand in US. It's a very very good microscope in my hands. Ziess is the Mercedes, the BMW, the Jaguar, the Bentley, or whatever. Global is, I would say, a VW, a very good VW. Then there comes the others. I have chosen a Global microscope because what is the return of investment of this Global microscope. What can I afford? It has a very good optic. It has a very good light. It has a very good ergonomics. It is not a wheel driven microscope because a wheel driven microscope is always a thing that you have to move around. That's not good. If you want to have a microscope, then make it on the floor stand or you fix it on the ceiling. 

In my opinion, I had made a failure on the way that I fixed it on the floor. I had better fixed it on the ceiling. If anybody moved around you will see this vibrations on the microscope. That's not a problem while you are treating a root canal but it's a problem when you want to make a video or even if you want to make a photograph. Then there is moving around, your assistant or the patient, he's always moving around, then you have some vibrations on your optics and this is not so good. 

Howard Farran: Do you have 1 or do you have 2? 

Stefan Klinge: I have a small office. I share it with my wife. We are working together. That's a great thing because we have time for our kids. We share our time. I'm not a full dentist. My wife is not a full dentist so we share the time so we have time for our kids. My son is 15 years old now. My daughter is 11 years now. We have to have an eye on the homework. 

Howard Farran: Is she an endodontist too?

Stefan Klinge: No. I'm a general dentist, in fact, but I do 60 or 70 percent endodontics. She makes aesthetic dentistry, very, very nice aesthetic dentistry. I couldn't do that on the front teeth. You can't see anything. She's an artist about front teeth with resin fillings. I never have seen that and I couldn't do that. She does paintings in former days. She's an artist. She was a dental technician before she made the study with dentistry. 

Howard Farran: Does she use the microscope for her cosmetic work?

Stefan Klinge: No, but loops. 

Howard Farran: She wears loops, okay. I wanted to switch to another topic. You are mostly talking to Americans even though each one of my shows is watched by pretty much every country on Itunes. I'm wondering the German market as different than the American market. When your patients come and get a root canal, what percentage have insurance from their employer? Do they have insurance from their employer that's paying for 80 percent of this root canal or do they not have insurance or is the insurance from the government? Talk about payment. 

Stefan Klinge: The payment is divided in 3 categories. They have the state insurance that covers the basic dentistry, the very basic dentistry. You get metal crowns without any ceramics on it. You get a very cheap root canal treatment which covers the very basic of root canal, not any microscope, not any ultrasonic, not any electro lengths measurement. 

Then there is the second category that are patients that are not in the state insurance. They have a private insurance. That's other companies. They will have paid their treatment almost totally. If it is root canal or crowns or bridges or prosthesis or [paradontal 00:57:58], whatever. They will have almost paid it from their insurance companies. 

Then we have the third class. They have the insurance from the state, general insurance system, but they also have an additional insurance which covers either implants or crowns or bridges or prosthesis. The modern insurance things are that these companies will cover your tooth cleaning, your root canals, your resin fillings, and some things like this. 

We have 3 categories in the moment. The one that are paid only from the general health system, the one that private insurance, and the ones that are in between these both. It's a little bit complicated. 

Howard Farran: What percent of the Germans have some form of dental insurance versus they just come in with no insurance and pay only cash, like they would for a car?

Stefan Klinge: No one. In Germany, it is almost not possible to be no inside of any type of insurance. 

Howard Farran: So everyone has insurance?

Stefan Klinge: Everyone has an insurance because you are forced to have one. 

Howard Farran: Okay. I have 2 more international questions. Some Americans say that there are some European countries banning the use of mercury in silver fillings. Is that true or false? What's the status of mercury in Europe. 

Stefan Klinge: I can't tell you in Europe as a whole but I can tell you from Germany. In Germany, we still use silver amalgam fillings. It is still in use. It is the preferred filling from the general health system. If you want to do any kind of filling of molars, the general health system says amalgam is sufficient. Why don't you use amalgam or cement or whatever. If you want to use resin, you always can do it but in the last 10 or 15 years, the generally health system was willing to pay a very basic resin filling. That means [inaudible 01:01:01] etching. That don't mean dentin adhesive fillings. 

Howard Farran: What percent of the dentists in German still, occasionally, replace amalgam versus what percent don't even have it in their office, would you say?

Stefan Klinge: I don't know. I don't have it. I don't use it anymore. I don't use amalgam anymore. I would say many of them would use amalgam, will still use silver amalgam. 

Howard Farran: What percent, would you guess?

Stefan Klinge: 50, 60.  I don't know exactly. 

Howard Farran: My last question, because we're past our hour, we're one minute over time. One more question. Does Germany use community water fluoridation. Does Germany adjust the fluoride in the water to prevent decay or not so much?

Stefan Klinge: No, no. It is not common to use fluoride water in the water system because this is against the self ... how do I explain that? Let me begin in another way. It was in discussion that the community water would have been fluoride-d but some people or many people have been against this because they don't want to be ... this is difficult to say ... it is about the self willing. They don't want to be fluoride-d. They have gone to the judge and they made a referendum so it was not able to make this community fluoridation of the water, like in Switzerland. 

Howard Farran: Switzerland has water fluoridation, but Germany does not?

Stefan Klinge: Yes. 

Howard Farran: Was it taken out of all the waters in Germany? Is Germany all non-adjusted?

Stefan Klinge: There's no fluoride in the water.

Howard Farran: But Switzerland does?

Stefan Klinge: Yes, Switzerland, as far as I know, yes it does. 

Howard Farran: I can't help but ask this even though I'm way over time. Did Germany also just recently ban the use of nuclear energy?

Stefan Klinge: Yes, almost. This is a very difficult thing because they want to ban the nuclear energy in Germany. They almost done it. The bad thing about that is if you have, in Germany, not enough electrical power you have to buy it from your neighbors and they produce with nuclear energy. What is the sense about that? We are developing wind parks out at the sea, at the Baltic Sea, the Northern sea. There are people against that because those propellers will disturb the natural environment of the fish. It is like it is. You can do what you want but it is always false, it is always not right. You can say I don't want to have nuclear energy. I don't want to have to pollute my environment. I want to have green energy but anybody will be against it because of whatever. You have to fight against giants and sometimes against dwarfs but you have to fight anything, anytime, against anything. That's life. 

Howard Farran: I took my boys on a Baltic Cruise and I was amazed. We were going down to Sweden, Finland, and Norway. We went into Germany and Russia. I was amazed at how much wind power there was. I was reading that some of those countries are 30 percent of their electricity comes from wind. 

Stefan Klinge: That's not a bad idea to make this with wind or with water or with solar energy. If you imagine, you go to the dessert, anywhere in the dessert, we have solar panels. I don't know what amount of dessert you need but I think you can feed the whole world with electric power if you invest in the dessert, in the sun. 

Howard Farran: Stefan, I just want to tell you, I think it's an honor that you chose to spend on hour with me today talking to all my townies. That is just amazing. 

Stefan Klinge: You are very welcome. 

Howard Farran: I really hope that... I started a thread and I posted 2 of your YouTube videos. I wish you would post them all because they are just so well done. They are so outstanding. I'm a huge fan of yours. So many of the greatest Endodontics I know are huge fans of yours. It's not only are you doing amazing endo but you're filming it just like a movie star. It's just amazing what you do. It really, really is. 

If you're listening to this, go on YouTube and type in Stefan, S T E F A N Klinge, K L I N G E. In fact, I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel. If you go to Stefan Klinge, you can subscribe to his YouTube. If you're not on YouTube and you're on dentaltown, go to the endo section and I started a thread with some of his YouTube videos. If you click on those videos, then you can subscribe to it once you click the play button. 

Stefan, thank you so much for spending an hour with me today.

Stefan Klinge: Thank you so much for your time. 

Howard Farran: All right, have a great day. Bye.

Stefan Klinge: Have a great day. Bye.

Howard Farran: It is a huge honor to bring back a previous podcast, Dr. Stefan Klinge. Did I say that right, Klinge?

Stefan Klinge: Klinge.

Howard Farran: Klinge. Which in English means a blade?

Stefan Klinge: Yes. 

Howard Farran: We did a podcast with you and you had so much you didn't want to cover. I don't even want to interview. You're coming back for a second. We're going to release these one after the other. Yeah, we'll release these back to back. 

Happy New Years to you

Stefan Klinge: Happy New Year. 

Howard Farran: Go ahead and you have your talking points. I'll try not to interrupt you. Present what you wanted, that we didn't get time to cover on our first podcast. 

Stefan Klinge: Okay. I'm very happy to see you again, Howard. We lost a little bit on time space on the last podcast because there is an important thing I want to tell the dentists all around. I'm not only an Endodontologist, but also I have great dedication to practice marketing and corporate films. 

Corporate films for dentist. In Germany, it is quite a new thing because about 50 percent of all physicians and dentists haven't' got an office website. They do not have a website. It is a great effort to talk to dentists and say you have to have a website. When I come and say you have to have a practice film, then they don't understand why. What is the reason why I have a film when I don't even have a website? I don't need that. 

The reasons are that, especially the long established offices, think that they wouldn't have a demand for it. A demand for website or practice marketing because the practice runs on it's own for decades without any website and any marketing. Times change, especially now in this modern times. The internet has so much impact for any dentist, any physician. They can really make their practice run better with the help of website practice marketing and even with practice films.

Another reason is that most of the offices have enough patients and the owners don't see any necessity to invest in marketing beceuase it is an investment. If you want to make a practice film, it costs you 5 to 10 thousand dollars because you have to go there and film the whole day. The owners don't want to stop their treatment so you have to go between the patients. You have to film between the whole practice work. This is a little bit difficult. If I could decide, if a dentist would come to me and say, "I want to have a practice film. I want to have an office film from my office." I tell him, "Please cancel all your patients and we will concentrate on that what you are. You are the dentist, you are the chief, you are the owner and the people want to know who you are." 

This is a great problem for the most dentists also on the websites. They all focus on their gadgets. They focus on "I have a new CBTC. I have a new cat-cam, milling machine. I have a new whatever." Patients don't want to know what you have for technical gadgets. They want to see what kind of person you are and what kind of practice office I come to. 

Another problem for the dentist to do real practice managements and websites, to run a really good website, is that, at least in Germany, there are a lot legal regulations. For example, a need of a side-note is on your website. There are many uncertainties and fears about cease and desist orders because the dentists don't know how to build a website by its own. They hire any kind of website people and they build the website for them but the dentists are responsible for all the content. There are a lot of uncertainties. 

I don't know how it is in USA or other countries but in Germany we have many restrictions in the past about what kind of information was allowed. It has to be shown on the website. Our dental associations prohibited practice marketing and advertising for many years. They don't want it then. I think it was last year in our region, dentists were requested to sign a code of honor not to advertise to excessively. In Germany there is a lack of the understanding of what is practice management, what is practice marketing. I think the problem is that there is a fear to establish a bad image to health care. Health care is nothing that you can buy. You have an insurance company. You have a local health insurance system in Germany. Public health insurance, sorry. Most of the dentists and the associations have the meaning that there isn't need for advertising but the future is there. The amount of dentists rise and rise. 

I think there is a need and you have to make any kind of practice marketing in the future. I think it is very, very important message to all the dentists in Germany and all over the world that you have to show what you can, you have to show what you are, and you have to show why you are different to the others. 

I watched a few videos recently about Micheal Burr about how to build a website. Charles Crawford and [inaudible 01:16:16] about social media. You can remember?

Howard Farran: Yes. 

Stefan Klinge: I think it was under your convention. 

Howard Farran: Yes. 

Stefan Klinge: [inaudible 01:16:27] said a lot of real true things about social media and Micheal Burr, I think he put the head on the nail. He just said, "If you ask a dentist what time it is he will explain you how a clock works." This is true. This is very, very true and that make me laugh a lot because I see that on every website in Germany on the German dentists. They want to explain what they do. The patients don't want to know what you exactly do in this situation. 

Howard Farran: Can I make one comment? You said that the website has to show how you're unique or different than other dentists. I want to take a step back from that that do you know how many dead people would be living in Africa and Asia if the public health workers didn't, in fighting AIDS, if they wouldn't have gone in and utilized television and radio and billboards. When these people say that we should have a code of honor when you advertise do they not understand we are trying to put out gum disease, and dental decay, and the psychologically devastating effects of denturism. The Germans wouldn't ask Porsche and Mercedes to stop adverting excessively. They would say buy an ad during the Superbowl which is the most watched thing in America. We've got to get these crazy, sick views on anti advertising because, at the end of the day, we're firemen putting out fires, we're policemen catching bad guys. The more we advertise, the more we're going to prevent dental disease. 

Stefan Klinge: This is my meaning also.

Howard Farran: In some of these countries in Africa, they were running 25 percent HIV contamination. With radio and television and billboards, they have knocked that back down to minuscule. It's amazing how we don't apply the exact same advertising used to fight AIDS around the world and HIV to dental decay. I've never seen an advertisement on television from the American Dental Association. I've never heard a radio ad. Do these people not realize that Americans are spending 105 billion dollars a year at the dentist. Our goal should be to drive that to 0. Our goal should be, like polio, where one day they only read about dentists in the history books. 

Stefan Klinge: This is true what you say but the thinking is another. The thinking is the less advertising you do as a dentist, the less are the costs for the public health system. The government means, when you don't do any advertising the people don't know about any dentists so they won't go there so we have lower costs. It's all about money. It is like it is. I can't change it. You can't change it. My colleague in the neighborhood won't change it. We can change the thinking in the dentist brain of making advertising as honest as possible because a patient wants to know where do I come, where do I go, to what person do I go. Is this the right dentist for me? With a corporate practice video, you can show yourself. You can show your environment. You can show your parking lots. You can show what kind of person you are. This is my opinion, in a corporate video you haven't to show what CBTC you have, the newest one, the oldest one, whatever, but you have to show what kind of person you are and then the people can decide, "Hey, this is some kind of human being. I want to go there because I like it there. I like the environment. I like the practice. I like the people that they are." And so on. I think corporate video isn't that what we had in the last 10 years.

If you think about corporate videos, you think about they show their buildings and what they do. They show what they sell but as a dentist you have to show you as a person. This is an emotion thing because you are not very many steps away from film making. Film making isn't nothing else than tell a story. Tell your story. Tell a story from a patient. Tell a story from a [inaudible 01:22:08]. Tell a story from your assistants. You have to tell a story and it is like it is. If you make a video you have to entertain people and when you want to entertain people, you want to tell a story. If you have to tell a story, it has to be interesting for the people, for the audience, for the viewer. This is a great thing that, also the film industry that makes those corporate videos for dentists, but also the dentists haven't understand. Not now. This is a great problem. 

If you watch YouTube, you can go to YouTube and type in dentist corporate videos. You will see and these videos. You can't change them. There's no difference. They're all the same. There is an establishing shot, the practice entrance. You get your assistants and you get a smiling assistants. You get your dentists and he's doing something but he doesn't talk. He doesn't talk to you. Why doesn't he talk to you? He has to talk. He has to tell a story. Not only pictures and a nice waiting room and a nice treatment room or whatever room you have. You have to show yourself. This is a problem. Not every dentist is kind of a entertainer. We are dentists, not actors but you can learn this. You have to know this dentist and you have to go in his office and talk to him before you do any film. Then you can see, is this dentist able to talk into the camera. Is it okay? When not, you have another opportunity. You can make an explanation video.

He tells or we tell something what he does. It could CBTC, it could be implants, it could be a crown in one day, or whatever. This is an explanation video where the narrator, which is not the dentist, talks about the procedure. This is also an information that the patients want to have. They want not to know how that works, they want to know what I get in the end of the day. A new crown in one day, and he explained it very well. I know beforehand what I have to do or what he will do to me. Not the bloody things, just the smile, just a rough overview of that what you do with the patient. This is enough. 

The best thing is, if you can show what person you are. This is the most important thing why patients choose a dentist. That is a personal thing. It is an emotional thing. I have 2 or 3 colleagues that can do Endodontics like me. Why do the patients come to me? Not because I'm a great Endodontist. There are 4 or 5 others so there has to be, not only the difference of what you do, but also the difference of how you ... I don't know the word, sorry. 

How you will be seen from the audience, how you will be seen from your patients. This has to be with empathy. 80 percent is empathy. 80 percent. If you can't talk with your patient. If you can't hear what your patient says, then this is 80 percent of your income. Sorry. You know that word to mouth is different because we have the internet and you have this [inaudible 01:26:46] forms. This also is word of mouth marketing but it lasts forever. If you have a bad rating on any kid of rating platform on the internet then it will stay there forever. You can fight against it and say, "I don't want that on this rating platform." You have a little chance that they will delete it but this is also word of mouth. Many, many dentists are riding on this wave and saying, "Rate me on the internet." If they rate bad, what can you do. It's a blade with 2 ... you know what I mean.

Howard Farran: 2 sides, yes. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. A blade with 2 sides. It's a dark and light region. It has positive and engative things. 

I want to come back you your website marketing and to your practice marketing because you have to have it in mind. If you don't have any kind of website, if you don't have any kind of practice marketing, you will lose in the long run. You will lose, lose, lose. Others will make the money because you will be forgotten. We have 70 percent of patients are searching their dentists on the internet, on Google. 70 percent. In Germany every year, over 8 million people are moving from one place to the other. They don't know any person in the new town. They have to search in any kind, so Google. Google is the answer. If you are not on the [second 01:28:56] side of Google, you're lost. 86 percent of the people in Germany search for health topics and information on the internet. Most dentists are thinking that I don't need those patients that come in my practice and in my office and say, "I have done a lot of research and I want to have that and that and that." I'm happy. I'm really happy when a patient comes in my practice and says, "I read a lot about Endodontics and I want to have the best what you can do for me." It's a win win situation. I can say, "Yes, I will do but it costs you money." He says, "Yes, I read about it on the internet." It's great.

Howard Farran: What percent of Germans did you say moved?

Stefan Klinge: Sorry. 

Howard Farran: What percent of the Germans did you say move each year and need a new dentist?

Stefan Klinge: 8 millions of people per year. 

Howard Farran: So 10 percent move. 

Stefan Klinge: 10 percent. 

Howard Farran: That's the same stat I see for where I live in Phoenix, Arizona. 

I want to go back. You said that 80 percent of it is empathy?

Stefan Klinge: Yes. 

Howard Farran: The possible future patient wants to see empathy. How do you get empathy across in a video? Once you can fake empathy, you've got it down. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes. This is the next point I wanted to say. You have to be authentic. This is the real thing, that you have to be authentic. You only can transport that what you are. People will see in a minute, in a second, if that what they have seen is that what they get. When they step in your practice ...

An extreme example, I go to a dentist and as a film make I can tell him, make it so and so and so. You are the director and the dentist is an actor. You say to the dentist make it in this way, it sells better. I do not a great job when I do that because this is not authentic. This is not the real life. If I see this dentist, he doesn't speak too much. The dentists that say, "Good morning. Bye. Have an appointment on the front desk." You know that dentist. When you tell this dentist in a corporate film that he is different, what a kind man he is, or whatever, this is not true. You can't do that. I know a lot of films on the internet they do like I described and they are awful. So much films on the internet you pay 2000, 5000, 10000 dollars for it and it is rubbish. It is not worth the money. 

Howard Farran: Have you heard of Dr. Alvarez in the United States? He's a firm in California where a lot of dentists go down there and pay to have an hour interview with him, I think it's about 10 grand. Do those work or do those not really work or what do you think? 

Stefan Klinge: It depends on how he introduces the dentist. I would presume that dentists who want to do that are a little bit ... I don't know what the word is ... extrovert?

Howard Farran: Extrovert.

Stefan Klinge: Yes, yes. They can tell. They can speak. They have a natural auro, you know what I mean? They are authentic. I don't think that any dentist who knows that he is not such a big speaker or entertainer, he won't go there. I don't believe that. He knows he will do a bad job there. 

If you look at Google and you see the search requests, you have to examine the search requests that Google has to work with. 5 years ago you would have a typical search request like dentist cologne, for example. Dentist and then Cologne. Now the search request are much more different. Now they search dentist cologne with a special talent [inaudible 01:34:39] for kids [inaudible 01:34:40] patients open hours, etc. There are a lot of keywords that ... I come back to the website now ... that you have to insert in your website and you have to be aware of that. You have to make your website searchable with the right keywords that fits on your practice. 

If you have a practice film on YouTube, if you have a corporate video on YouTube, and you have a website, they're playing with each other. If you have a video and you have a website you will rise in the rank of Google. Who was it? Charles Crawford. I watched the video with Charles Crawford. [inaudible 01:35:38] If you have a video, if you have a website, if you have more than one website, then you will rise up in the rank of Google. 

My strategy was, for my practice, have explanation videos, have 2 or 3 websites about Endodontics, not only your practice website. Establish yourself as an expert on the internet so the patients can find you. The patient has information about Endodontics. The patient has not 1 website, but 2 or 3. You have your practice website. You have a video website. I have 3 channels on YouTube. I have 1 channel for my practice and 1 channel where I explain Endodontics. If you insert the word root canal treatment, in German [inaudible 01:36:41], or Endodontics, in German [inaudible 01:36:44], I will be on the first place in Google, German-wide. This is because I worked with this a lot. Since 4 or 5 years. I do this on my own. This is self education. I got this all from the internet. You can read it, you can search it, and you can learn it. It is, for the most dentists, time intensive to do that so they hire and they do that for them. They can't because they are not dentists so they have not the text, they have not the pictures, they have not the videos, or whatever. It is a lot of work. Practice marketing is work. Every day. Every hour. Every week. Every year. 

If you think that you have a practice film and you put it on the internet and you are done, that's wrong. That's wrong. You will dump your money if you do it as a one time wonder. This is not the way to go. You have to work every time, every hour, on your practice marketing. On social media, on YouTube, for your website, for whatever. Then you will see that the patient will come to you. 

In my practice, I have over 50 percent patients that come from the internet. Over 50 percent and they all have seen the videos.

Howard Farran: Most Endodontists get all their patients from referrals from general dentists, correct? That's the way with most specialists, except for pediatric dentist, they get most of their referrals from pediatricians. Outside of pediatricians, most of your Endodontists. Of other colleagues who don't advertise so much online, what percent of their patients would come only from referring dentists versus the internet?

Stefan Klinge: I would say 80 percent. 80 percent comes from the referrals. 

Howard Farran: Yours, you say is 80 percent, 50 percent. 

Stefan Klinge: 50 percent comes from the internet, 50 percent comes from the referrals. 

Howard Farran: That's amazing. That's a 30 percent difference. That's a third of a practice. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes, because I work a lot of it. They have seen it. The problem that you haven't got the numbers is that most dentists don't ask where the patient comes from. If they come from a referral, then it's clear, but if they have a new patient then the first thing that I ask is, "Where do you come from? Why did you choose me?" In 80 percent they say, "I found you in the internet." They are 20, 10 percent maybe that come locally that say, "I have seen your practice here. It's nearby and you have parking lots a lot. There's a supermarket in the near, or whatever. The bus stops in front of your practice." The most come, 50 percent come from the internet and say, "I found you in the internet because you explained it so nicely."

In Germany, most patients want to know beforehand what they have to expect. Pain. How long does it take to make a root canal or a crown? Last year I did a film about how to make a dental crown. I went to my dental technician and I said to him, "We have to do a Saturday and we have to do a whole crown. We have to do the whole procedure to explain to the patient." The next patient who comes I say, "You need a crown?" I don't know if you know that but some patients are thinking that you make an impression and tomorrow they have their new crown if it is a regular one, if it is not [inaudible 01:41:22] or whatever. I say, "Go to my website, watch the film, and you will see whatever it is to make a crown in different ways." 

Much of the patients that come have seen any kind of my videos. I have a second video where I explain how [inaudible 01:41:47] disease arises. What are the reasons for cavity? Many of them have seen that. They say, "You have explained it so good, even I have understand it. I gave it to my friends." This is the thing where you have so much possibilities in the internet because, when you do a good film, it goes viral. It will be shared. My crown film, in the moment, has about 40 thousand views. That's amazing for a dental video, you can imagine that. 

Howard Farran: That is very amazing.

Stefan Klinge: I think this is the right way to go. Corporate videos is not only that a camera team steps into the practice and films whatever, how you drill a tooth. It has to have a script. You have to have the right lighting. You have to have some sort of discussion beforehand, what you do, what you have to do, what you expect. The camera team has to work with you, not only for you. This is a great difference. I'm very dedicated to this topic.

Howard Farran: You are, and you're outstanding. 

Stefan Klinge: I have a nice thing that I want to say about advertising. There is a nice quote that I found in the internet 2 years ago, I think. William Wrigley said it, you know, that man with the chewing gums. 

Howard Farran: Right.

Stefan Klinge: He said, about marketing. On a flight, Wrigley was asked by a reporter or by an interviewer why he continued to advertise so heavily when his product was already well known. He answered, "We now have reached our cruising altitude. Do you really want me to tell the pilot to turn off the engines now to save fuel?" This is a great answer and it describes advertising in total. Advertising is not a thing that you do at once and then never. Advertising is a thing that you have to work all day, all week, all year. You have to do it again and again and again. This is why the great companies, like Coca-Cola, they advertise although they have a great market place, or Pepsi, or whatever. They advertise and advertise and advertise because they want to hold this altitude. That's not possible when you stop marketing from one day to another. Then you will be forgotten.

There is a German quote. [inaudible 01:45:24] Who does not advertise will die. In English it is not a rhyme, unfortunately. 

What have I on my script here? Okay. There is a great thing. 

We have to have in mind that people that are born after 1980 were likely digital natives. I read this term in the internet 2 weeks ago. Digital natives. They grew up with internet. We approximate every fourth of people in the 60s are used to search a new dentist via Google. This is the second thing I read 2 weeks ago. Every fourth of people over he 60s use Google to search a new dentist. This is amazing. Then you have to do your math. If you don't think then that you have to advertise your practice, then I don't know what has to happen. What more has to happen then? That's my opinion. How do I tell that because you have [inaudible 01:47:08] here. I was on the website and there was so much quotes and statements from the colleagues so you know all that, I believe. 

Never forget that a video must entertain people. If you do a practice video you have to have in mind that the first 5 seconds, you push the play button and the first 5 seconds are crucial. They will decide if the audience will watch the people or not. 

Howard Farran: The first 5 seconds?

Stefan Klinge: The first 5 seconds. The internet is fast and the delete button is nearby. If they think that it's interesting they push the delete button and you are off. The first 5 seconds. You have to put your major message in the first 5 seconds, or 10 seconds. 5 to 10 seconds. This is difficult. It is really difficult. 

Howard Farran: What do you think the first 5 seconds should be like?

Stefan Klinge: It is like a film. It is like a movie you watch in the theater. You go to the theater and then you have an opener. The opener has to be exciting. The opener has to make you want to watch more. It depends what practice it is. You can do an establishing shot. If you have a nice environment, I don't know, Santa Barbara, maybe. You can make an establishing shot. There are boats, there are seas, there's a beach, or whatever. Or if you have a nice park nearby. Whatever. It depends on what is the thing that stands out from the other practices. It is difficult if you make that in town because in town they're all the same. You see houses, you see shops, you see whatever, and that's difficult. You will not likely have an establishing shot in the town. You will have an establishing shot only there where you have a great environment which is nice, which is pleasant, and which attracts people. You can do in the town. You can do anything. You have to find an opener that is really exciting. 

I saw a film from a practice in Berlin. They did a film. I think it's 1 minute. It's a teaser. It's just a teaser for their practice and they do a boxing fight. The opponent was a man with a beard and a cigar and tattoos and a t shirt where it was, in great letters, [inaudible 01:50:38]. The dentist was the champion. The champion was fighting against the man with the [inaudible 01:50:48] t shirt, which was awful, disgusting. The dentist was nice. He was styled. He has nice red gloves, you know what I mean? That all was filmed in slow motion. He needed 3 punches and [inaudible 01:51:09] go down. This is an opener. 

Howard Farran: Do you think that openers should convey empathy?

Stefan Klinge: Yes, it depends. It is an extreme example but it doesn't fit to every practice. Those were authentic because they are like in the film. They are a little bit weird, I would say, but they have the patient that fits to them. With this film, they get the people that fits to them. This is a great point, that you have to do your film that you get the right patients. If you want a private practice, you can't do a film about public health service. That's not possible. With a corporate video, you can transport the patient what kind of practice that is. The other thing, beside that you attract people, is that you don't attract people. This is a good thing in some cases. 

You asked about empathy. This film what I talked about, about this boxer thing, isn't about empathy. That is only about the show. If you want to step on the train with empathy then you have to do that in a different way. You have to show the dentist. You have to show his dedication to dentistry, his dedication to patients, a personal story, or whatever. It depends on the dentist. It depends on the practice. You can do that, that the patients see this is a kind man and he's an honest one and I can trust him. You know what I mean?

Howard Farran: Absolutely. 

Stefan Klinge: This is the way you can do that. The ordinary way to do corporate videos will not be seen in the future anymore. The corporate video that we had decades ago, that's dead. Nobody wants to see that. I see so much videos on YouTube in English, in German, in what language ever, they're all the same. They're all the same and they're all copying he textbook, how to make corporate videos. That what were published 1- years ago. That's nonsense, truly nonsense. You waste money. Thousands of money. This is the reason why I started to do that.

I recently have made an explanation video for orthodontists, I was from 730 AM to 5 PM in his practice and we filmed and filmed and filmed. He had scheduled special patients. That's a point that I come to in a second. He had scheduled special patients that fit for him, that fit for the cases he wanted to show, and were able to speak into the camera. He did the choice of the patients beforehand. That was a great help. It was a really great help. He, himself, was a dentist that can handle the camera. He was not shy from the camera. He was not afraid to speak into the camera. That was a great help. You not always have such luck and you have to work with the dentist to make him trustful to the camera. It is only a lens and some computer parts. 

A real important thing I want to give the dentists that watch that video is if you ever want to make a corporate video you have to do a model release contract. Imagine, you make your film with your assistants, you invest 5 to 10 thousand dollars to it, and then 2 weeks later she quits the office. Okay? She says, "I don't want to be shown in the film anymore because I don't work there anymore." If you haven't got a model release contract then you have a bad time to delete her from the film. In some cases, this is not possible to do that so you're film is ruined. You waste money. You have to do a model release contract for your assistants, for your patients, for every person that is shown in such a video. If not, you risk money in a high amount because they all have their rights to their own image. 

Howard Farran: I just want to point out why you're looking for it. Your online e-course videography on the dental microscope, you're talking about all of this stuff to make a endo video but the same technology and knowledge could be used for your dental office website corporate video. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes, yes, that's true. 

Howard Farran: That was an amazing course you put up. 

Stefan Klinge: I also give a course how to make a practice video. How to make a corporate video for the dentist.

Howard Farran: Do you already have that course?

Stefan Klinge: I gave that course one time at the DGET, that was the German Society of Endodontology and Traumatology this year in Dresden. 

Howard Farran: Could you put that up on dentaltown? Could you put up another course on dentaltown?

Stefan Klinge: I can record that. It's no problem. 

Howard Farran: I would love to have that course. That is amazing. Your course was under Endodontics or Dental Ergonomics. This one could be under Dental Marketing for the dental office website. 

Stefan Klinge: Of course but that would have to be 2 or 3 videos because it is a very, very large thing. If you want to speak to film teams, then it is impossible. This is a film team, this is a camera man, this is a dentist. They don't speak the same language. The dentists want this and that and the camera man says, "that is impossible. I can't do that." In America, they wouldn't say, "I can't do that." It's different. You have to speak the same language. The dentists have to have just a basic knowledge about lighting, about cameras, about sensors, about sound, about framing and whatever, so that he can exactly describe what he wants. That I presume what the dentist knows what he wants. This is the next problem. 

Howard Farran: You'll make that online e-course for dentaltown? 

Stefan Klinge: I can do it. 

Howard Farran: You're saying it would be 3 different courses or 3 different videos. 

Stefan Klinge: 3 different videos.

Howard Farran: How long would each one be?

Stefan Klinge: Ever video would last 1 hour. 

Howard Farran: That would be awesome because that is just so important.

Stefan Klinge: At least an hour. 

I recently put a video online, how to make a video online presentations and lectures, on vimeo. I sell them for 1.99. That's 2.18, I think, because it's only an overview. This is quite an hour long and it is very interesting because it is an overview of all that what if you want to present your lecture online. What you have to have in mind. This includes green screen. This includes power point presentation. This includes microphone. This includes sound and lighting and whatever. It is only an overview. 

I'm producing further videos for it because it's a very large topic and then I will produce the videos for you. If I like to do all the videos I wanted to do, I have to film every day and I can't do any root canals anymore. 

Howard Farran: What do you like doing more, filming and website or root canals? What makes you have more fun?

Stefan Klinge: This is a difficult question. It depends on the day I have. Some days I want to do both of them and only doing barbecue all the day. This is my greatest pleasure. On Christmas, the second eve, we had ribs and the ribs were awesome. They were awesome. They were falling off the bone. They were right as like it. It was only salt and pepper and a safe made barbecue [inaudible 02:02:07]. But it was too much. I make 6 slabs but we are only 5 persons so I froze the other 3's. 

Howard Farran: How far away do you live from Cologne?

Stefan Klinge: About 5 hours with the car or with the train. 

Howard Farran: 5 hours away. Next Cologne meeting is, is it 2017?

Stefan Klinge: 17, yes. Because it was this year. In April I think, was it in April? I think, yes. I wanted to go there and do some filming for microscope corporations like Ziess and Global and [inaudible 02:02:56] and some others but it doesn't work because only 2 of them, Global and [inaudible 02:03:05], were able to give me an interview. For 2 corporations, that's too big effort because you always have to defend yourself about being paid for it. Either Global nor [inaudible 02:03:28] would have paid me for that. If I get Zeiss, they made a yes for me and then the rejected. The others they had no men where I could speak to. That makes no sense. Maybe in 2017, I come with my video cams and I do some interviews. Maybe I will come to the booth of dentaltown and we make an interview. 

Howard Farran: That would be very fun. That would be outstanding. We are out of time. 

Stefan Klinge: Yes, I know. Thank you. 

Howard Farran: I just want to tell you, I think you're so amazing and next time, in 2017, when I go to Cologne I want to ... what city are you in?

Stefan Klinge: Kiel. This is 100 kilometers above Humberg. 

Howard Farran: It's 100 kilometers above Humberg. Is that where the hamburger was invested? Is Frankfurter where the hot dog was invented?

Stefan Klinge: I don't know exactly. I don't know that the hamburger was a thing that was invented in Humberg because I think it comes from ham and then the burger is the bun. That you have ham and a bun so you have a ham burger.

Howard Farran: A real hamburger is made of pig then.

Stefan Klinge: Yes, a hamburger is made... No, no. I think that the origin of a hamburger is not coming from the town Humberg but I can imagine that it has to do with ham and that burger that is commonly used, in any dialect in America, to describe the burger bun.

Howard Farran: What about Frankfurter? Was the hot dog invented in Frankfurter because we call it a frankfurter?

Stefan Klinge: Yes, we have a frankfurter but we also have wiener and we have some other [inaudible 02:05:36] sausages that have some names. [inaudible 02:05:43], they come from [inaudible 02:05:44], that is in the Eastern of Germany. We have [inaudible 02:05:50], they came from [inaudible 02:05:52], I think. I don't know why they call them frankfurter or wiener because they taste similar. They have just another form. 

Howard Farran: I have to tell you, I do. I've told everybody a million times, I think Germany is one of the single greatest countries that every exists. It is so clean and organized. The food is amazing. The technology is outstanding. The greatest dental companies in the world are all from Germany. You guys make the best cars. You guys are just world class. 

We're out of time, Stefan. 

Stefan Klinge: Thank you. 

Howard Farran: I just want to tell you, thank you for all that you've done for dentistry, all that you do for dentaltown. You're just my hero and my idol, buddy. 

Stefan Klinge: Thank you. I wish you a very, very nice year, 2016, and I hope we meet in 2017 in Cologne. 

Howard Farran: Okay. I'll see you there. Bye. 

Stefan Klinge: Bye.


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