Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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778 The Power of Planning with Larry Mathis : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

778 The Power of Planning with Larry Mathis : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

7/21/2017 3:45:01 PM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 188

778 The Power of Planning with Larry Mathis : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

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778 The Power of Planning with Larry Mathis : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

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VIDEO - DUwHF #778 - Larry Mathis

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AUDIO - DUwHF #778 - Larry Mathis

Larry Mathis is the founder of Mathis Wealth Management, a private financial planning firm based in Phoenix, AZ.  He is a CERTFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional and Accredited Investment Fiduciary with clients throughout the country.   Larry is a public speaker and the author of Bridging the Financial Gap for Dentists, and Mom Was Right.  An active member of his local community, Larry has been married to his wife, Rhonda, for 32 years and they have 3 sons.

Howard Farran: It is just a huge honor today to be sitting in my home with an idol and mentor of mine for probably 25-30 years. Larry Mathis. How are you doing?

Larry  Mathis: I'm doing great. Thank you, Howard. Great to be here. 

Howard Farran: I'm going to read his bio. Larry Mathis is the founder of Mathis Wealth Management, a private financial planning firm based right here in Phoenix, Arizona. He is a certified financial planner, professional and accredited investment fiduciary with clients throughout the country. Larry is a public speaker and the author of "Bridging the Financial Gap for Dentists" and "Mom Was Right". An active member of his local community, Larry has been married to his wife, Rhonda for 32 years and have three sons, ages 25, 22 and 18. Securities Offered through United Planners Financial Services member FINRA/SIPC. Thanks so much for coming over today. 

Larry  Mathis: It was a great drive over, Howard. 

Howard Farran: You know, the dentists, they all want to just do root canals, fillings, and crowns. You don't go to school eight years to be a financial planner. We just had 6,000 kids walk out dental school a couple of weeks ago. Two schools here, which you teach at. 

Larry  Mathis: Yes.

Howard Farran: You do teach at Midwestern? 

Larry  Mathis: A.T. Still.

Howard Farran: Is it A.T.Still?

Larry  Mathis: A.T. Still

Howard Farran: I thought you were at Midwestern?

Larry  Mathis: No, I live by Midwestern-

Howard Farran: Oh, okay, you live by-

Larry  Mathis: but teach at A.T. Still. 

Howard Farran: So right now, you're talking to thousands of young dentists on people old and decrepit and senile like us, we read books, but they listen to podcasts while they commute to work off their smartphone. So you're talking to a bunch of kids commuting to work, what do you think they didn't learn in dental school that they need to learn about financial planning?

Larry  Mathis: Well, there's a lot, Howard. Unfortunately, when you're in dental school, it's all about learning techniques and procedures and all the stuff associated with being a dentist that I know absolutely nothing about, but the reality is the vast majority of schools teach maybe a day or a half-a-day or something like that on finance, which you need to know about disability insurance and retirement planning and such. 

The challenge that a lot of these young dentists have is they're coming out of school with tons of debt and their big question is, "Do I pay off my debt or do I save money? Should I have some money in emergency reserve? When should I start investing?" and they really, for not lack of not being smart but not being educated on what needs to be done.

Howard Farran: How long have you been in the dental space?

Larry  Mathis: Almost 30 years.

Howard Farran: 30 years, a long time, that's right. What do you think is different about the millennials graduating today as opposed to ... I just celebrated my 30th anniversary right here in Ahwatukee, I went from '87 to 2017. What do think is different about their financial situation than 30 years ago when you got in this space?

Larry  Mathis: First and foremost is the school that they have. Even the loan program that dentists had back 30 years ago or even 20 years ago, the interest rates were significantly lower, but you have these young dentists coming out of school with anywhere ... I seen as much as $400,000 to $500,000 of loans. That's like having a mortgage without a house, with a really high interest rate and they're faced with significant amount of pressures of, "How am I even gonna get this paid off?"

In addition to that, there's so much information out there, sometimes a little bit information overload that it becomes difficult for them to make financial decisions.

Howard Farran: How much debt do you advise your clients graduating from dental school, just to move to Brazil and change your name?

Larry  Mathis: I have not made that-

Howard Farran: [crosstalk 00:03:52] before you said it.

Larry  Mathis: I'll tell you, Howard, it's pretty scary to see these students come out with 250-

Howard Farran: Well, let's talk about that first because ... Tell me if I'm right or wrong. It seems to me, financial leverage, all these kids could have worked at McDonald's for 15-20 years and saved up enough money to go to A.T. Still in cash, but they use the other people's money to go to dental school now, so they can become a doctor, so instead of making minimum wage, now they can make $50 to $100 an hour, but it seems like a lot of them come out and they've used other people's money to a third-of-a-million in debt and now they want to go get a job at corporate for like $150, pay taxes, and of course, the millennials love to spend money. They've never seen a dollar they don't want to part with, $5 Starbucks and eating out five times a week, and all that stuff. 

So the math says, if you're gonna make $150,000 a year and pay taxes, it's gonna take you 20 years to pay all those student loans. Is this true of false? If you borrow a third to a half-a-million dollars to become a doctor, you gotta go all the way with other people's money and buy a practice for $750 or $800 because you're not gonna pay out those student loans in five to 10 years being an employee? Is that right or wrong?

Larry  Mathis: I would say that's right, Howard, and you can pay it off in five or 10 years in corporate dentistry, but you're not gonna have anything else, other than an apartment and your student loans to pay.

Howard Farran: Yeah, but they don't do that. They come out of school and their starter home is bigger than their mom and dad's home and he's had a job for 40 years.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah.

Howard Farran: You got to A.T. Still and Midwestern, it looks like a Honda dealership and then they post on Facebook, they do their spring breaks on cruises and they fly places and they eat out every night. They just ... I full of their money will soon parted and these millennials are spenders. Do you see that or am I reading that wrong?

Larry  Mathis: I would say a high ... and it's not just millennials, it's people in general, but yeah, they want to spend money. They want to have today what it took a lot of their parents to accumulate over a 30-year period of time. Yeah, absolutely.

Howard Farran: So you're saying they could get a job at corporate if it's not what you earn, it's what you spend and live humble. I tell them, "Go move back in with mom and dad." I didn't have a car till senior in dental school. I walked, in all undergrad, first three years of dental school and that was the norm.

Larry  Mathis: It's not rocket science, Howard. If you have a limited amount of resources, they only way to expand and be able to pay down that debt is to increase the income, if you want to have a lifestyle that you want to enjoy, and the reality is the vast majority of people don't want to live below their means and live below what their peers are living. There's an old saying you have to be willing to do what nobody else is willing to do, so you can have what nobody else will have later in life. Putting off today for what you want tomorrow.

My poor kids, growing up with a financial planner, my oldest son's first vehicle was $3000 and my second son's first vehicle, I think, was $4000 and I guess my youngest was lucky because we spent as much as $5000 on a vehicle for them, but once they wanted another vehicle, it was all up to them. You gotta be willing to live below your means.

Howard Farran: They do it in their dental profession, like 3M will sell an Impregum Impression that I've used for 30 year, $17, and they'll say, "Ah, you don't want a $17 impression. We got a $17,000 scanner. It's all digital. It'll hook up to your iPhone," and it'll be a $200-$300 a month maintenance contract in perpetuity and the first thing they'll think is, "Oh my God, a shiny object. I'll buy it now." You say, "Well, you could send that $17 impression to a lab man right around the corner and he'll make you a crown for $99." "No, I want to mill it out myself. I want to buy a $150,000 ..." It's like every idea they have, they're gonna blow $10,000, $100,000, $150,000. It's like dentistry is one of those deals where every time they have a thought, they're overhead goes up and their debt goes up.

Larry  Mathis: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Howard Farran: It almost like maybe they should just start smoking pot every morning on their way to work so that they get to work and they don't have any new thoughts. I always say that dentists should have a new thought board that every morning in the morning huddle, they dentists should walk all their staff and say, "Help me. Help me from myself. Here's my best idea that I had today. Please stop me from doing this," you know? Then the staff [inaudible 00:08:38] 

They know they have to have disability insurance but can you really sell life insurance to a 25-year-old. Aren't 25-year-olds gonna live forever?

Larry  Mathis: They're not gonna live forever. I've come to realize that the older I get, the more I realize I'm not gonna live forever. Disability insurance is key in my opinion for any dentist coming out of school and the time to get it is right when they're getting ready to graduate because insurance companies will actually allow them to buy disability insurance to protect income that they don't even have yet. 

When it comes to life insurance, my philosophy is pretty simple. If you don't have somebody who is dependent upon you personally, financially, you don't need life insurance. Once you have children or a spouse or somebody like that who's dependent upon you, then it makes sense to get some life insurance, some cheap, inexpensive term life insurance that you can have for 20 or 30 years.

Howard Farran: But or a single guy like me, since my kids are 27, 26, 24, 22, and they've all ... on their own. Do you think I should have life insurance with four kids, if the baby is 22? Your baby is, what? Your baby is 18, mine is 22.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah. I still carry life insurance.

Howard Farran: Yeah, but you're married. 

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, I am married. 

Howard Farran: I'm sorry.

Larry  Mathis: No, 32 years.

Howard Farran: I'm sorry.

Larry  Mathis: Blissfully to the same guy I met when I was 17-years-old.

Howard Farran: That's awesome.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, so everybody's situation is different. It really comes down to-

Howard Farran: What would you advise a single dentist whose baby is 22? Do you think they still need life insurance?

Larry  Mathis: They may or may not. It depends upon whether or not any of the ... if they have debt, that kind of stuff, that's gonna be passed on to somebody else, [crosstalk 00:10:09]

Howard Farran: I put all my debt in my children's' names.

Larry  Mathis: That's perfect.

Howard Farran: They don't even know about it.

Larry  Mathis: No, that's not [inaudible 00:10:15]

Howard Farran: I forge their signatures. They don't even know it. 

Larry  Mathis: Again, it comes down to whether or not you have somebody who is dependent upon you and what you want to leave someone. Let me address that real quickly, Howard. You know I wrote the book, "Mom was Right"

Howard Farran: Shout out to Mom. 

Larry  Mathis: Shout out to Mom. Well, my father died when I was three years old. Mom was 35 years old, had seven kids. She had no job, she had no house, she had no college education-

Howard Farran: Seven kids?

Larry  Mathis: Seven children.

Howard Farran: She had to be a Catholic or Mormon?

Larry  Mathis: Lutheran.

Howard Farran: Really.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, close. 

Howard Farran: Lutherans had seven kids?

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, well it was the '60s. There was no birth control. 

Howard Farran: You're the first Lutheran I've ever met that had seven kids. 

Larry  Mathis: Well, I'm not a Lutheran anymore. 

Howard Farran: I thought only Catholics and Mormons could pull that off, but Lutheran-

Larry  Mathis: It was the '60s. 

Howard Farran: Okay.

Larry  Mathis: It was the '60s, Howard. They had no birth control. Anyhow ... but here's the thing. Seven children, no home, no job, no income, but dad did purchase a life insurance policy in 1963 and when my father passed away, my mom got that life insurance and really, the book, "Mom was Right" kinda talks about what my mom did with that money. It's kind of interesting talking about millennials and money ... and not just millennials, but really when someone has cash that all of a sudden ... they've got income all of a sudden that they never had before and they have a pool money that comes to them, whether it's an inheritance or whatever. In my mom's case it was life insurance. 

It's not so much about what they do with the money, it's what you should not do with the money and the vast majority of people want to make quick decisions on, "Hey, now I'm making 10 grand a month, I think I'll go buy this, I'll spend this, rather than taking the time, and in my opinion, the best thing you can do in a situation like that is nothing. Kinda see how things are gonna work out a little bit before you make any major decisions.

Howard Farran: I just retweeted. I went to your website, I just retweeted that on my Twitter, they're all driving, so they so know my guest, they just go to my Twitter @Howardfarran. 

Larry  Mathis: Yep.

Howard Farran: So I retweeted your @Howardfarran and then I also retweeted your website at your Twitter Yeah, I think that is ... My boy's grandpa, he had the exact same situation. The exact same situation ... yeah, they had ... how many was in grandpa's family ... how many kids they have, was it nine?

Speaker 3: Yeah, nine.

Howard Farran: They were very dairy farmers.

Larry  Mathis: Were they Catholic or Mormon?

Howard Farran: They were Catholic.

Larry  Mathis: Okay. 

Howard Farran: They were [inaudible 00:12:54] from this kind of too much information but if you go to Africa, Asia, Latin America, the cows look like they're starving to death. The American was a very successful farmer and they bred obesity. A normal cow might make a gallon of milk a day. Those big, obese American dairy cows do four, six, eight gallons a day, but they're so obese they can't mate. So when they're sniffing around, they put them in a shoot, so when the bull comes in and mounts them, someone has got to crawl underneath and help them find where to go and insert it and the bull slipped off and smashed him to death and he-

Larry  Mathis: Oh my gosh.

Howard Farran: Yeah, big old ... what are those bulls? 2000 pounds. So anyway, so they lived in the same deal and all their children, very successful but won't part with their cash because they were fatherless through the Depression and they used to have to sleep on the corners of their farm to keep out hungry hobos from coming and stealing their chickens and stuff like that. It was very rough times. It was amazing to when he ended up having millions of dollars, he still wouldn't spend it 'cause they knew.

Larry  Mathis: They knew what it was like to have nothing.

Howard Farran: They knew what it was like to have nothing, yeah. 

Larry  Mathis: I definitely experienced that growing up with Mom.

Howard Farran: So speaking of that, so adversity really builds character.

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely.

Howard Farran: What's that saying? What doesn't kill you helps make you stronger.

Larry  Mathis: Make you better or stronger.

Howard Farran: So then how do you advise the older dentists listening to this and older I mean 55 and older, not-

Larry  Mathis: My age.

Howard Farran: 54 like me and younger.

Larry  Mathis: Okay. I'm 55. 55 is the dividing line. 

Howard Farran: That's the divide there. I'm 54, that's the dividing line between old and senile and still rocking it.

Larry  Mathis: Okay, that's fair.

Howard Farran: What would you advise them on the college fund because I see so many dentists putting away so much money for college funding and I went to school with these guys and they were on student loans and had three jobs and were eating ramen noodles. Then you sit there and think, "Well, don't you think my kid would be better if he was living on the street eating ramen noodles?" How do you justify helping a kid, making him too fat and lazy versus too hungry?

Larry  Mathis: I think helping your kids with college is a great idea, but it should not come at the expense of your own retirement because the reality is there's a lot of people out there wanting to have their kids have a better, easier life than what they've had and sometimes it's gonna be at the cost of their own retirement someday and then you're 70 years old, 80 years old, still practicing dentistry, not because you want to but because you have to. 

I have no issue with allowing people to have a little bit of adversity. I think it's great when you can help your kids not end up with $300,000-$400,000 worth of school loans, but there is nothing wrong with letting kids struggle. You can ask any of my boys if we've allowed them to struggle because the reality is, I think allowing someone to struggle and really learn from ... sometimes even learn from poor financial decisions.

Howard Farran: Oh yeah. It's amazing because so many people whine about their parents, especially my four boys, it's just nonstop. I always say that my dad, he had nine Sonic drive-ins and taught me everything I know about business, but the biggest takeaway lessons I learned from my dad, are his biggest mistakes he made. He always knew what mistakes he made 'cause he was married to my mom so she had to keep reminding him, 24 hours a day, seven days a week because she fought with him tooth and nail like, "Don't do these three things," and Dad, he'd listen to his mom but he didn't listen to his wife, but anyway ... So it's like my takeaway is I actually learned business from my mom, who's a stay-at-home mom, whining to dad about these three issues that became his biggest problems. 

One was partners. It was always chaos fighting within the partners. Number two, he was outsourcing his accounting, so he didn't know his numbers. He had a CPA and then the other guy at the same church was Dan and Beverly Carney who founded Pizza Hut and they 20 hundred Pizza Huts and when he had five employees, two of them were bookkeepers and every millionaire that we knew by the time they got to five employees, they already had two bookkeepers. They always knew their cost. 

So now I've had Stacy and Lori were bookkeepers going back into the '90s and just know my numbers and dad never knew his numbers. He was always winging it, you know what I mean? 

Larry  Mathis: You bring up another really good point, Howard. In both "Mom was Right" and "Bridging the Financial Gap" I talk about knowing what your numbers are and not just your numbers as far as what you're making from your practice, but knowing what you're spending. Where's the money going? 

This is a big issue with millennials and I'll even say my own sons, they don't keep a checkbook. They have no idea what kind of money they have. They take their phone and they say, "I've got X amount of dollars in my account," and that's how they do their accounting. They don't know what their expenses are. You've gotta know what your expenses are. You have know what your fixed expenses are, your needs versus wants, and you need to know what your income is. 

I am amazed, Howard, that I can sit down and visit with a dentist who's been practicing for 25 years and does have a clue of what his real or her real income is. They don't even know what they're making, or what they're paying in taxes.

Howard Farran: Larry, it's all of them. I've been doing this for 30 years.

Larry  Mathis: It is.

Howard Farran: I never met one ... and I'll tell you this number. You go to their office and they say to you, "Well, you know, I just booked up two weeks in advance. You think I should hire another hygienist?" I say, "Well, how long has that hygienist, BetsyLou been working for you?" "Ten years." "Okay, well she just did a cleaning, exam, and bitewings. What did that cost you? Did you make $9 profit, did you lose $9?" No one has ever been able to answer that. 

Then they sign up for every PPO that comes across their desk. So I'll say, "How much ... you're doing a filling in there and you've blocked off an hour for two fillings. How much do you get for those fillings?" They go, "Ah, I think I get about $2.50 a piece." "Dude, you signed up for 12 PPO prices." The highest one is $1.50 and it goes all the way down to $1.05, so this is the $1.05 one, so you got two fillings, so you're gonna get $2.10, you're in there for an hour. Did you make a dollar or lose a dollar? They have no idea, and that's the state of our industry. 

Larry  Mathis: Unfortunately, you're right. It doesn't make any difference in many cases ... and again, this isn't across the board for "everyone". There are exceptions of people who are keeping track of their numbers, but the vast majority of them are not.

Howard Farran: No, I've never met one and I've lectured 1000 times. I never met one. The only ones that know it are to DSOs, and the DSOs, like when you talk to Steve Thorn you said, "Are you doing all this?" I'm like, "Dentures?" They go, "No, no, no. We bought a system and then we hired a bunch of programmers and we've been adding layers and layers of financial management." Only the DSOs and it's a huge competitive advantage for these guys. 

Imagine you do not know your costs and there's a corporate dental office across the street that knows their costs. 

Larry  Mathis: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Howard Farran: Then the dentist, you say, "Well, you just mailed a flyer to everybody in town. How many new calls did that generate?" They have no idea.

Larry  Mathis: No idea.

Howard Farran: Let's say it generated 100 calls. "How many did your receptionist convert to an appointment?" No idea. For all the people that came in and you laid out a treatment plan ... we're not talking about fancy veneers and implants and bleaching and bonding, we're talking about just decay. "How many cavities did you diagnose did you convert to getting drilled, filled, and billed?" No idea. They have idea and I'll say, "Well, what is your best idea?" "Well, I think I'm gonna buy $100,000 laser and $150,000 [cavcam 00:21:02] and $100,000 CBCT." It's just [crosstalk 00:21:07]

Larry  Mathis: With the expectation that it's gonna do them any good.

Howard Farran: Speaking of numbers on your kids, financial planning. Millennials don't know what a Roth IRA is but they asked Albert Einstein something I'm paraphrasing, what was the greatest mathematical equation of all time? What did he say? 

Larry  Mathis: He said, "Compounding interest."

Howard Farran: "Compounded interest."

Larry  Mathis: Compounded interest.

Howard Farran: Warren Buffet. I actually went to [Crate 00:21:28] in Omaha, that's where Warren was. It's so embarrassing how dumb I was. I listened to Warren Buffet go speak while in business class in 1980, only did it for 10 extra credit points and then I had to write an essay to get my 10 ... on what I thought of his speech. I thought he was dumber than a rock 'cause back then it was the nifty '50. It was Xerox and Kodak and all these high tech companies and he's up there saying, "Well, I don't understand those," and he went on to never even invest in Microsoft and Bill Gates was his best friend. He said, "I only invest in a business that you can explain to me on a five by seven index card with a number two pencil," and so I said, "This guy is an idiot." Now, looking back, I should have dropped out of college and taken my tuition money and bought one share of Berkshire Hathaway and then went and worked at Taco Bell for 20 years and I'd have 10 times the money. 

So these kids don't understand compound interest. They certainly don't know what a Roth IRA is, but the way I look at them, if they just traded in their morning Starbucks, seven days a week, 364 days a year, they could buy it. They could damn near buy a Roth IRA. Explain compounded interest and specifically what a Roth IRA is.

Larry  Mathis: Okay, and you bring up a great question because you asked me earlier-

Howard Farran: And it was named after David Lee Roth.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah.

Howard Farran: That's a little known trivia.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah.

Howard Farran: The singer.

Larry  Mathis: No, I don't think so. I think it was a Congressman or a Senator but [crosstalk 00:22:57] Roth.

Howard Farran: No, I'm sure it was David Lee Roth.

Larry  Mathis: Anyways, we'll check that one. 

Howard Farran: Do you remember his band?

Larry  Mathis: I do not remember his band.

Howard Farran: What band was David Lee Roth in? Van Halen.

Larry  Mathis: Oh, Van Halen.

Howard Farran: Van Halen, man. He was our main guy. David Lee Roth was the best lead singer of Van Halen, which is why they named Roth IRA after David Lee Roth.

Larry  Mathis: We'll let Howard go with that one. 

Howard Farran: You'll let me go with that, but you think that might not be right?

Larry  Mathis: I don't think that's right.

Howard Farran: We might need a Wikipedia citation.

Larry  Mathis: We can look up. Pretty sure it was either a Senator or a Congressman with the last name of Roth. Anyhow, what is a Roth?

A Roth IRA is an IRA that allows you to put money into it that could grow tax free when used correctly. Actually, in my opinion, one of the first things any new dentist should do, is open up a Roth IRA, for a couple of reasons.

Number one, hopefully-

Howard Farran: I'm gonna back you up though. They might not even know what an IRA is.

Larry  Mathis: Great. You're exactly right. An IRA-

Howard Farran: Well, they're 25. 

Larry  Mathis: Is an Individual Retirement Account. IRA, Individual Retirement Account. So a Roth Individual Retirement Account, it's an account that you set up. You can set it up anywhere. You can set it up at a bank, you can set it up with an investment firm, but essentially the Roth IRA, all that is, is a wrapper that tells the IRS, "Hey, I'm putting this money in. Howard is putting this money into this account and he's not gonna get a tax deduction for this account," but if he leaves this money in, in the account long enough, generally 59-and-a-half years old, we're gonna let that money grow tax free and when he takes the money out at 59-and-a-half, that money will come out tax free. So you never pay taxes on the growth, as long as you follow the rules of the Internal Revenue Code.

One thing that's different about a Roth IRA than a traditional IRA and just really quickly, a traditional IRA-

Howard Farran: No, don't be quick. This is-

Larry  Mathis: You put the money in a traditional IRA, you get a tax deduction for that, so you're not gonna pay taxes on that. For instance, if you put $1000 in there and your tax bracket, say, is 25%, you're going to save $250 on your taxes. You'll get that money back when you file your tax return. The Roth IRA, you don't get that tax deduction, so you put $1000 in, it's gonna cost you $1000, there's no immediate tax benefit.

One of the benefits of a Roth IRA that you don't get with a traditional IRA or really any other type of what's called a qualified retirement plan, is that when you put that money in there, you're actually able to take out your contributions at any time without a penalty. Generally speaking, if you put money in a 401K or a 403B or a traditional IRA account, if you take that money out before you're 59-and-a-half, not only do you pay taxes on the money that you take out, but in addition to that, you pay a 10% penalty if you take money out of the plan early. For simple IRA accounts, which a lot of small offices have, there can be as much as a 25% penalty for pulling that money out early.

So, let's go back to the Roth IRA. What's one of the challenges that young dentists have? Number one, they don't have any savings. They got debt. They don't have emergency reserves, they don't have a retirement plan and in addition to that ... Well, let me rephrase. When you put money into this Roth IRA, there's gonna come a time when you are not eligible to fund a Roth IRA because you may hopefully, because you make too much money. There are limits of the amount of money that you can earn and I'm not gonna go through what all those limits are, the details. You can Google it and find out what they are. Depends upon whether you're married, whether you're single, but there are limits on the amount of income that you can earn and still be eligible to fund a Roth IRA.

Well, what do young dental professionals generally not have? That's, a lot of income. So you put money into a Roth IRA early. If you don't have any emergency reserves, any types of savings, you can go to a bank, open up a Roth IRA account and put $2000 in there, $1000 in there, the actually maximum contribution on an annual basis is $6000, unless you're ... I'm pretty sure that number is right ... unless you're over 50.

Howard Farran: $6000 [inaudible 00:27:28]?

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, so you can put money into a Roth IRA. If you don't have any emergency reserves, my recommendation is, is to just put it in a regular savings account with the title Roth IRA on it, allow that money to sit there, continue to fund, continue to start saving in maybe another emergency reserve account and then, if you never have to use that as an emergency reserve, then you can start investing that money to grow however you want to invest it, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, whatever, but then you can use that money later for retirement.

So early on, it can act as an emergency reserve because if you do need to get to the money, you can pull your contributions out, tax free. So, if you put $5000 into a Roth IRA, and let's say, eight years from now, the value of that account is $8000, you can pull that $5000 out without any penalty. That's the only type of retirement plan that's out there that allows you to do that. 

I would again, check to make sure of the appropriate amounts that are actually eligible. I'm pretty sure it's $6000 for 2017.

Howard Farran: So if my homies go to your website, Mathiswealth, M A T ... just remember math is wealth. That's a damn pretty cool name, math is wealth.

Larry  Mathis: Howard, you have just created a wow experience. That, I have never even thought of. I may change my entire marketing plan for my financial plan. You created a wow experience. That's awesome. Math is wealth, I love it.

Howard Farran: Math is wealth and then you should have that quote from Einstein that compounding interest is the greatest mathematical formula of all time.

Larry  Mathis: You know, Howard, somebody once told me that if you get one idea in a meeting or a seminar, whatever it cost, it's worth it. Even if I had to drive here from Dallas would have been worth it, just for that one thing. Math is wealth. I love it. 

Howard Farran: You're in Glendale, right?

Larry  Mathis: I live up towards Glendale. My office is in Phoenix, on 16th street.

Howard Farran: Do you live Phoenix or you live in-

Larry  Mathis: I live in Phoenix, right on the border.

Howard Farran: And you practice in Phoenix?

Larry  Mathis: I practice in Phoenix.

Howard Farran: So math is wealth. It really is and compounded interest is everything and so many people who don't get that ... You see dentists where they're 65 and they're still paying interest on other people's money. Like they'll be 60 years old and they'll upgrade their house and they get a 30-year mortgage and like, "Doc, are you gonna live till you're 90?"

Larry  Mathis: Till they're 90, yeah.

Howard Farran: So how do you get them from paying interest on other people's money to earning interest on their own money and what are they gonna find at

Larry  Mathis: I'm gonna give you a really simple story, real life story about my sister, Gerry. Not a dentist, not a, what I would consider, a highender, she made a very good living. When my sister was 22 years old, she got a job, basically serving food in the cafeteria at a hospital. She was making $1.70 an hour. My mother taught all of us, by the way ... just because Mom taught everybody what to do, that doesn't mean everybody learned what to do. My sister lived her life by the gospel according to Mom. Mom said, "Save 10% of your income." So making $1.70 an hour, my sister started saving 10% of her income, that's .17 an hour. She did that for many, many years.

So, back in 2006, right around there. Right around when I published "Bridging the Financial Gap" I went to visit my sister in Iowa in February ... by the way, I don't recommend February in Iowa, they just don't go together ... very, very cold. I was trying to figure out why it just said three on her thermometer outside. In any regard, I get to my sister's house, it's about one o'clock in the afternoon, it's freezing cold outside, 

I'm standing at the door, knocking on the door, "Tch, tch, tch," my sister comes to the door, holding a piece of paper at the screen door, yelling, "I'm a half a millionaire. I'm a half a millionaire," and I'm looking to see what she's got. She's got her 401K statement that says "502,000" ... by the way, she was 49 years old at the time and I'm like, "Ah, you are, you're a half a millionaire, sis. Open the door. It's freezing out here." 

I go inside and she had basically saved 10% of her income inside her qualified retirement plan, her 401K, she did it automatically, it came right out of her check. She treated it like a bill. She was not allowed to touch that money. Mom basically said, "This is not your money. This is Gerry's money when she's 60, not Gerry's money when she's 22." 

So, at 49 years old, 49 or 50 years old, she meets me at the door, she's got her 401K plan, $502,000, she is excited, I'm excited for her and what happens in 2008? The stock market, "Whoosh," tanks. What do you think happened to her 401K plan? It went down. But do you know what happened, just about two years ago, Howard, when my sister turned 59? She had over one million dollars in her 401K plan. How did that happen? It happened from compounding interest. It took her 30 years to accumulate $500,000 and another 10 years beyond that ... actually, not even really that ... it took her about 25 years to accumulate a half-a-million dollars and then 10 years later, that $500,000 went from $500,000 to a million. That's compounding interest. 

What a lot of people don't realize is the compounding happens later. When you have $500,000 ... When you've got $5000 and you make ... let's just say you make 10%. That's, what, 10% of $5000 is $500. Doesn't really seem like that big of a deal, but when you make 10% of $500,000, that's $50,000. Now my sister wasn't a dentist by the way. By the time she retired ... this is a great story. She retired ... She walked into work one day, she was now the Director of Food Services at a very large hospital in Nebraska and the President of the hospital called in all the middle managers and said to them, "Well, I know you've been laying people off and now it's my turn, so I'm gonna have to let some of you go. What I'm looking for are somebody, couple of people, two, three people that would be willing to volunteer to take early retirement," and my sister's hand went right up in the air. "I'll go." No question, no thought about it in any way, shape, or form. 

She was ready to go and what was kinda funny is that her boss then kinda went to her afterwards and said, "Well, you weren't really one that I wanted to leave," but she did. She retired, interestingly enough, what she had now, Howard, she had choices. She could decide what she wanted to do and about three months later do you know what they did? They came, "Tsk, tsk, tsk," called her up, "Hey, could you come back?" You know what she said? "Sure, but it's gonna cost you twice what you were paying me before and I'm only gonna work a limited number of hours." Now she had options in her life. She still has options in her life and she did that for a little while and then she really realized that she really didn't want the money, she didn't need the money, she wanted to go spend time with her grandkids in North Carolina. 

That is what making decisions at 22 years old and living those decisions for a period of 30 years allowed her, at 60 years old, to retire and you know as well as I do, Howard, the vast majority of dentist professionals, at 60 years old, in this country, who made a lot more money than my sister ever did, maybe two or three times the amount of money on an annual basis that my sister, they don't have a million dollars and they can't afford to retire, at 60 years old. 

It's, like you said, math is wealth. It's mathematics. Put the money in, let it grow. The markets are gonna fluctuate, that's just how things are. You've just gotta have a plan, live the plan, just like a dentist puts together a treatment plan. You gotta put together a treatment plan for yourself at 60 years old. That involves giving up some things today, so that you can have things tomorrow.

Howard Farran: I remember my first ... This lady came to my business 30 years ago and she got a job at Mobil Oil in the mail room when she was 16 in high school in Parsons, Kansas and they had this little check, "You check this and we'll remove 3% of your deal," and she checked it and she never looked at it again. So 16 to 65, she moved out to Phoenix, Arizona, she had three million in cash. Three million in cash from checking that 3% box at Mobil Oil and she wanted to have braces. She was all excited, she finally retired, came in, "I want braces," and she was 65 and I was young, so I got a board certified orthodontist, Harry Green to come down once a month and we'd all go lunch and teach me this ortho case and it was just amazing to where she was just a ... And then there was that other book. Remember "The Millionaire Next Door"?

Larry  Mathis: "The Millionaire Next Door," absolutely.

Howard Farran: Written two PhDs and what was the most mind blowing in that book ... Do you know what occupation had the most millionaires?

Larry  Mathis: I do not.

Howard Farran: It was teachers.

Larry  Mathis: Oh, teachers.

Howard Farran: Because doctors, physicians, lawyers, and dentists have this inflated ego and so they have these big houses, big fancy cars and big vacations but school teachers, some are your five best friends. So, if your five best friends are school teachers, you live in a modest house and on vacation you go camping or to the lake or whatever, but they save their percent and so at 65, school teachers were the number one, highest percent occupation of millionaires and you would think it'd be cardiovascular surgeons, and dentists, and orthodontists, and all this stuff like that, but they live in million dollar houses, their vacation is cruises and Hawaii and they're just always spending money. 

So specifically back to these kids at 25, if they go to, what are they gonna check out, what percent of this, what are they supposed to do, so at 65 they've got a million dineros in the bank.

Larry  Mathis: They need.

Howard Farran: And the dinero, by the way, was named after Robert Di Niro. It was not a currency it Italy, that's all. But anyway, so if they go to what are they supposed do. Just tell them what they're supposed to do.

Larry  Mathis: You know what they need to do? They just need to either send me an email at or call us and we'll send them the information that they need to get started. Number one is finding out where you stand financially, and get started opening up ... open up an IRA account or Roth IRA or maybe they have-

Howard Farran: Can they open that up with you or do they-

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely, they can open it up with us.

Howard Farran: Okay, so your email is contactus@mathiswealth. So, you can remember that. Contactus@mathiswealth and you're in Phoenix, Arizona, up the street. What if they're in Charlotte? What states can you work in?

Larry  Mathis: We're licensed in about 20-25 states, but it's not that big of a deal. If somebody is in a state that we're not licensed, we simply get licensed in and in addition to that, a lot of times, if they want a local advisor, I know advisors all over the country. I can direct them to somebody local if that would be better.

Howard Farran: So with the email you and I know there ... who's that lady on TV that talks about finance?

Larry  Mathis: Susie Orman.

Howard Farran: Susie Orman and Susie Orman is a-

Larry  Mathis: She was a roller. She was an oar man. Never mind, I'm just trying to pull a Howard and it's not really working. 

Howard Farran: I like that. I like that. You know, I love watching shows like hers, I love "Shark Tank," I love those things but you can really tell by watching just four or five episodes of her show that finances are a very emotional subject.

Larry  Mathis: Oh, yeah, very emotional.

Howard Farran: Why is math, which should be completely emotional, why is this all so emotional humans? Why do they have such an emotional time with this?

Larry  Mathis: You know, Howard, I can't say that I have an answer to that, but I will tell you a way to help your emotions work for you in a positive way financially. This is something that I really strive to help people to understand. You have to know what is really important to you in life in order to make sound financial decisions and I will tell you that the vast majority of people don't have a clue. They don't really know what they really value in life. 

People value ethics, they value integrity, they value hard work, but when it really comes down to, at the vast of majority of people have never really sat down and said, "What are the things that I value most in life? What are the things that I value most in life? What are the things that I value most in life personally, me, Larry Mathis?" "I value time with my kids. I know that today is the only day I have promised. I value spending time with my kids, I value spending time with my wife, I value spending time with my friends, I value making a positive impact in the lives of other people."

My wife likes security, she likes peace of mind, she likes knowing that the bills are paid and that when we go on vacation, we don't have to worry should we be spending this money on vacation. A vast majority of people have never taken the time to do that and that's where, unfortunately, most people just make decision on the spur of the moment. They've never sat down and said, "What's really important to me," I know we can go back to 2008 when I talked about when my sister's 401K plan went down. Of course, it came back as the market recovered, but we had a slew of dentist offices ... I know here that dentists went out of business in 2008.

Howard Farran: How many do you think went under in Phoenix? I've heard different numbers. I've heard 74 and I've heard 86.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, I want to say it's somewhere between ... I was gonna say somewhere between 50 and 100. I don't know exactly what the number was, but what I did realize, is a lot of people realized that that big house really wasn't that important to them.

Howard Farran: Oh my gosh.

Larry  Mathis: That Mercedes really wasn't that important.

Howard Farran: Oh my gosh.

Larry  Mathis: What was important was knowing that they didn't have to worry about money and I will tell you that I cannot really think of any of our clients that really suffered financially during that period of time. Sure, they're practices suffered but they kept their lifestyle in order, they kept their lifestyle inline with their finances, kept investing, and they know what's important. They knew what was important to them.

Howard Farran: You know, I had several sitting on that couch right there, crying, bawling, losing everything and it was just amazing. Like I'd say, "Well, you know, you drive a Mercedes-Benz and your wife drives a Range Rover and you got that sports car. Number one, let's just sell those." They were all leased. 

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely. 

Howard Farran: And they couldn't get out of their lease. Then you looked at their home and it's like ... you sort of look at their lifestyle and it's like, "Do they think they're Rod Stewart?" You go to their houses, it's like, "Dude, you're a dentist," 

Larry  Mathis: Palatial.

Howard Farran: And this is all borrowed money, it's all leveraged. I think that the millennials is having a tough time because when you said, "What's the most important to you?" First thing you said was spend time with are kids.

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely.

Howard Farran: And you've got three boys and I got four boys and I'm with you, I want to spend time with three of my four boys too. I just don't want to tell you which one is that fourth boy ... he don't even hear me. I think the millennials are very smart because a lot of them ... and I'm not just talking about the United States ... We've had falling birth rates around the world, so at the end of World War II, they average American was having five-and-a-half kids, now it's down to 2.3. Japan is under one, and when I was lecturing in Japan, those women dentists told me, they go, "Oh, a lot of Japanese women don't want to have a kid," 'cause they saw what it was like having a kid. Your school is very intense and you're trying to get in the best high school and that was very intense, trying to get in the best college and that was very intense, trying to get a job with a big Toyota, then they worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and then dropped dead of a heart attached at 65, and a lot of women just said, "I don't want to do that." 

Our generation, these millennials get out of school with a third-of-a-million in debt and you look at their schedule and they work Monday through Thursday, 9 to 5. They only 9 to 5 I know is 95 hours a week-

Larry  Mathis: A week.

Howard Farran: For three decades and so if they don't want to work like their old man and they want to spend more time with their children and their dogs or cats or whatever and they only want to work four days a week, well then they can't spend like they work 95 hours a week.

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely.

Howard Farran: So they're spenders and they're really cerebral and don't want end what's important in life ... I agree, my four boys are the most important thing to me and I love spending time with them but a lot of the time that we spend together, we're working or when I take a vacation and I take my boys, but ... like when we go to London, I'll lecture in London. When we go to Tokyo, I'll also ... So it's a work mix, it's always ...

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely. 

Howard Farran: So what do you say to millennials who say, "What's important to me is not working 95 hours a week like my old man. I just want to work 9 to 5," but she wants to spend more than her old man. She's got a bigger house than her old man, she's got a newer car than her old man, and her old man has 10 times more savings. 

Larry  Mathis: It's math.

Howard Farran: How do you fight that? It's math is wealth.

Larry  Mathis:, exactly, but it's a mathematical calculation. It is matter of saying, "Hey ..." What's gonna happen is they're just gonna accumulate more debt and if they continue to spend money that they do not have to impress people that they don't even like, [crosstalk 00:45:54]

Howard Farran: That was a [crosstalk 00:45:53]. People's.

Larry  Mathis: That's credit. It's a way of spending money that you don't have to impress people that you don't even like. That's not really ... but anyways.

Howard Farran: Yeah.

Larry  Mathis: Again, it comes down to what's important to you. For me, personally, my wife and I have lived in the same house for 30 years. We live in the same house today that we did before we even had children. It was in 2012 when we finally bought our second home up in the mountains, took us a long time to be able to save for that and know that, "Hey, we can afford to do this," so again, it's putting off today for what you want tomorrow. 

The challenge is, is that a lot people don't really think that tomorrow is going to come and they think of tomorrow as literally tomorrow. Today is Tuesday, June 27th and when I'm talking about tomorrow at June 27th of 2017, I'm talking about tomorrow, June 27th of 2052. That will come very quickly and it's just a matter of trying to get a little perspective on how fast time goes and you've got to plan for it. 

Howard Farran: I found your quote. "We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like." Yeah, and that's the other thing about ... again, with the school teachers. When you're running with dentists, they're all talking about their ... "I bought this big laser. I bought this big machine. I bought this bass boat. I bought this cabin." Maybe if your husband is a school teacher, maybe you should only hang around with his friends. They're like, "On vacation, we camped out at the lake." You hang out with dentists, "Oh, we went to my cabin." 

I'll never forget. I was lecturing in Lafayette, Louisiana. The average ... you can't make this shit up ... the average dentist in this seminar owned like a $90,000 bass boat that they would take down to the bayou [crosstalk 00:47:56]

Larry  Mathis: It was Louisiana.

Howard Farran: Halfway into the gulf of Mexico. I mean it was crazy fun. All your homies have a $90,000 bass boat-

Larry  Mathis: You're gonna have one too.

Howard Farran: That's very different than if you're hanging out with school teachers where they would go and rent a bass boat for the weekend. I always said, "You never want to buy a boat. You just want to have one friend with a boat." 

Larry  Mathis: Boat stands for "bring on another thousand" by the way. This coming from a previous boat owner. Previous boat owner. I remember two times. One, remember I mentioned we've lived in the same house for 30 years and I have some clients who have some significant net worth and my wife and I have spent time in their homes and such and I'll never forget, one of them was coming to our house and they were gonna spend the night with us. They were traveling through Phoenix and they're gonna spend the night. 

We have a very, very modest home, 2250 square feet in a very middle-class neighborhood, nothing fancy and my wife said, "Do you feel a little maybe embarrassed to have somebody come stay here?" I said, "Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Just because I don't have what they have does not mean I'm not good with my money. I just prefer to do something differently with my money," and candidly, Howard, I have clients who make a ton lot more money than I do and they do very well and if they can afford it, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with having stuff. Stuff isn't bad in and of itself if you can afford it. 

I remember another time, I had a lady client, very well-to-do here in Phoenix, here and her family started a company here in Phoenix. If I mentioned it, you'd know what it was, but I'll never forget she came to my firm and was asking me if I'd be willing to manage their family's money and I said I'd be happy to do that. She looked at me and she said, "Tell me about your home," and I said, "What's that?" and she says, "Tell me about your house. Describe your home to me," and I described it and she said, "I like that." I said, "Why did you ask me that?" She goes, "I just want to know what I'm paying for," and I thought what an interesting question ... by the way, she lives in a very modest home herself, nothing grandeur, but that's a great question. Anyways, I just thought that was interesting. 

Howard Farran: What percent of your clients are dentists?

Larry  Mathis: Probably about 20%. 

Howard Farran: 20%. And what's the other 80%?

Larry  Mathis: I have clients who are corporate executives, I have clients who are physicians, I've got attorney clients, I have a lot of clients who are just simply retired clients from corporations. 

Howard Farran: Do you see any differences between physicians, dentists, and lawyers. They're very similar types of people.

Larry  Mathis: The reality is, Howard, people are people. Whether you're a dentist or a physician or an attorney. There are some differences. Engineers. Engineers understand math so they're a little bit different, but across the board, most people are pretty much the same [crosstalk 00:51:15]

Howard Farran: That's the most interesting difference between China and Singapore, which I think are the two best managed countries on earth versus undisciplined democracy and China, everything in government is an engineer. In America, everything is lawyer and we have a million lawyers. That's why the United States hasn't built a nuclear power plant in 30 years, but just American General Electric has built 30 in China.

Larry  Mathis: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Howard Farran: Singapore is the most efficiently managed country I've ever seen in my life. 

Larry  Mathis: Wow, never been there.

Howard Farran: It runs like a Swiss clock and every employee is an engineer. I like engineers because dentists, physicians, lawyers, very emotional, like right, wrong, this is right and engineers are like, "Well, it's a trade off. If you want fuel efficiency, you make the car light." Just everything ... I love engineers' minds the most because they're just so analytical. 

You got two amazing books. Let's talk both of them and if you go to you got "Bridging the Financial Gap for Dentists" all five-star reviews. Is that a must read for these kids coming out of school?

Larry  Mathis: I think it is definitely a must read. It's a book that really teaches the fundamentals of finance. I will be honest, it was written in 2006 and some of the stuff that's in there is a little outdated. As far as tax rules and stuff like that, needs to be updated, but the principles are the principles. Absolutely, it's a must read.

Howard Farran: Can I give you a marketing tip on that?

Larry  Mathis: Hey, you've already given me a great one for my practice.

Howard Farran: We sat in chairs and read books because we were just that pathetically boring or it must have no other stimulus in life. I've read a thousand books. Millennials, they do audiobooks. So when I came out with my book "Uncomplicated Business" they kept saying, "You gotta do an audiobook," so finally Ryan forced me to sit down and I just sat down and I read my book, five-and-a-half hours. Oh my God, the sales of an audiobook just fly off the charts. You have to sit down and you have to give them the audiobook because when Miss 25-year-old Dentist wants to read your book, she wants to be on the StairMaster the treadmill, cleaning her house.

These podcasts, I have so many people who say, "Saturday morning, it takes me four hours to do my house. I gotta do all the laundry, cleaning, vacuuming, wash the car, and I'll burn through four podcasts and that's when I did your audiobook, it was five-and-a-half hours." I had one lady send me a deal, she says ... She was an Iron man and she says five-and-a-half hours is about her 90-mile train ride and whenever she's doing a 90-112-mile bike ride, she always gets a six hour audiobook.

So if you want to, if there's some minor changes, whatever, you need to just-

Larry  Mathis: I can just update that. 

Howard Farran: Well, just update it off the top of your head while you're reading your book. You know what I mean? Just read it, it's as an audiobook.

So then the other book we started talking about at the beginning, "Mom was Right" but is it on Amazon?

Larry  Mathis: It is on Amazon. is the website for the book and you can actually purchase it through there but you can go to Amazon and just simply type in "Mom was right".

Howard Farran: Yep, I'm gonna fact check yeah. I'm gonna go to Google right now. 

Larry  Mathis: That's right. Go right ahead, it better be there. 

Howard Farran: Which book do you recommend more if she was gonna start with one.

Larry  Mathis: Well, if they buy one, I make X, but if they buy two, I make two times X, Howard. [crosstalk 00:54:39]

Howard Farran: So you say buying a boat, buying [crosstalk 00:54:40]

Larry  Mathis: You know, it really depends. 

Howard Farran: Again, all five-star ... both of your books only have five-star reviews, so that must be your seven siblings and your two kids.

Larry  Mathis: Actually, I wrote another book as well and I sold five copies of that and I'm pretty sure it was my five sisters, because [inaudible 00:54:56] won't read one of my books.

Howard Farran: That's what I tell my kids that-

Larry  Mathis: I would tell them probably to go ahead and get "Bridging the Financial Gap" and it's got a little more ... Let me tell you why. "Mom was Right" was written a little bit differently than "Bridging the Financial Gap". "Bridging the Financial Gap" has some why behind the finances. Why you should be doing certain things, but it also has some of the how-to. "Mom was Right" it's tough for me to say this because "Mom was Right" is not a how-to book. "Mom was Right" was really written for the purpose of getting people to understand why they should be making certain financial decisions and not just why they should be making them, but helping them to discover what their why is, what is really important? 

If you remember what I said earlier, is the vast majority of people have no clue as to why they make the financial decisions they make. They just make decisions ... they go to Costco and they have a Costco moment, "Oh my gosh." I hope I don't get my wife made at me this morning, but somebody sent me a yeti cup, you know, a yeti, a little tumbler. They told me it'd keep my beer cold for 24 hours. I said, "I doubt it's going to last that long in that cup," but she said, "You know, we oughta buy a yeti cooler," and I said, "Why? Why do we need a yeti? We have a fifth wheel, we use a refrigerator. We really don't need a yeti."

Well, why are we making financial decisions that we're making? "Mom was Right" ... see that book ... "Mom was Right" is more of a book about why. You know what? Actually, there's a quote in here, if you don't mind me taking the time to read it, that says, "Jeannine Mathis will erase any excuse you might think you have as a single mom to remain stagnant financially. It's time to take control of your life, your kids, and your money. No more excuses."

My mom was 35 years old when my dad died. Like I said, no house, no income, she had never worked a full time job outside of home. She was raising seven kids, it was the '60s and it was different in the '60s for women. She had no credit. All of the credit was in the husband's name back then. She never made more than $22,000 a year in earnings working. That was the most money that she ever made and that was the year that she retired in 1992. She retired debt free, her home was paid for, she had no credit ... she had great credit actually at the time, but she didn't owe anybody anything. She paid for my college education, she paid for my oldest sister's college education, sent me and my sister to Europe, all expenses paid when we graduated from high school, for a month, and never made more than $22,000 a year and she retired debt free at 62. 

"Mom was Right" talks about how she did that because she knew what her why was. "Bridging the Financial Gap" gives more information on the how-tos. How to set up a Roth IRA, what to look for in a disability insurance policy, what type of retirement plan should you have. So the books are slightly different and I'll make an offer to your podcast and I guess the easiest way to do this ... we'll say I'll give 10 copies away, five of the "Bridging the Financial Gap" five of the "Mom was Right," they send me an email,, send me a copy of and the first 10 people will get a copy of one of those books. I'll just mail it to them.

Howard Farran: You know, they have to see the word to remember it. 

Larry  Mathis: Yes, I love that. 

Howard Farran: They don't remember Mathis 'cause they don't see it. They can see math is wealth.

Larry  Mathis: 

Howard Farran: Memory is very visual for humans. Birds, they all remember sounds. Monkeys, apes remember like visual, like you'll say, "Hi. I'm Larry Mathis," and then they'll go to a part for two hours and as soon as you leave and they say they remembered it's you, they say, "I forgot. I'm sorry, what [inaudible 00:59:03]

Larry  Mathis: Forgot the name.

Howard Farran: So then you hand them a business card because a monkey's opposing thumb can hang onto the card, but their ear can't hang onto the sound unless they see it. I want you to do me a favor.

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely. 

Howard Farran: I want you to ... this is Saturday, this is Sunday and you're just gonna sit there and you're gonna read this.

Larry  Mathis: I can't wait to do that. That's gonna be so much fun.

Howard Farran: Read the damn book and also, I also think the research from Jeff [Pesso's 00:59:29] is clear, audiobooks outsell physical ones.

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely. 

Howard Farran: Number two, the author should always read it because then ... you get to be ... especially in the book, instead of just reading the book, you can ad lib, you can get off topic, and then the next page brings you back [inaudible 00:59:43] so it's a better experience. They're reading the book by the author, who says, "You know what? I want to add something that's not in the book," and you can go off on tangents.

Larry  Mathis: I love it. You know, Howard, you are not just another pretty face.

Howard Farran: Yeah, but keep your wife in the other room 'cause they don't want to hear her say, "Larry, you left your cloths on the floor. The bathroom lid is up. God dang it, Larry." Right?

Larry  Mathis: Absolutely. 

Howard Farran: I retweeted your "Bridging the Financial Gap" from Amazon to our 20,000 homies and I retweeted the "Mom was Right" Larry Mathis, so if you get to work, just go to @howardfarran and you can find both of those books. Oh my God, we went over our hour brand.

Larry  Mathis: Wow.

Howard Farran: So, my final question. One overtime question. We're over our time but I want you to wrap up everything you said in a ... the graduates in class of 2017, if you were giving the commencement speak. They always want it to be two or three minutes. What is your final piece of advice to the commencement graduating class of 2017 who just joined our sacred, sovereign profession of dentistry. What would tell them? Especially if those ... your three boys ... say they just graduated from dental school two weeks ago. What would you tell them?

Larry  Mathis: I would tell them if you're just graduating from dental school to, number one, know why you did this. Some people went into dentistry and they don't even know why they went into dentistry. Figure out why you're there. Realize that the more people you help, the better off that you're going to be. Go into dentistry with the mindset of helping others and not just about ... I mean, you want to make a great living. I personally believe that the more people that you personally help, the better off you're gonna be. Always have your patient's best interest in mind, 100% of the time.

Keep track of your finances because the reality is, if you are better off financially, that's gonna make you a better dentist. If you don't have to worry about money, you are gonna be a better dentist, you're gonna be a better provider of healthcare to your patients. So that means know what your numbers are in dentistry, but also know what your numbers are at home. Know how much money am I making, what are my expenses. Plan today for tomorrow. Don't live today like ... I would say, don't live today like tomorrow is never gonna come. 

You do have to have a balance though. You need to have some time, to take some time for yourself and enjoy life along the way, but plan for tomorrow today, by being willing just to give up a little bit and take the time to spend time with other people who make you better. 

I'm gonna be really blunt. I should have been here a long time ago, Howard, because just this time here makes me better at what I do. So spend time with those types of people that make you better. Find a mentor in the dentist business. Don't consider everybody to be your competitor.

This is something I do as a financial advisor. I have a study group. These are seven of us from all different parts of the country. We get together twice a year and talk about our practices, the best things that we're doing, the challenges that we're having and we kind of mentor each other along. The dentist down the street doesn't have to be your competitor. They can be your friend and you can learn from one another. There's plenty of people to go around and you don't have to have the next patient. Like I said, spend time with people who make you better.

Howard Farran: It's funny, tonight, I'm going to dinner at six o'clock, with three dentists in this zip code. You're thinking abundance and fun. My favorite dentists on earth are the ones that live and practice within one block to three miles of my office and half the dentists think in fear and scarcity, but half are thinking hope, growth and abundance. 

Imagine being a fireman your whole life and you were the only guy in the fire station. It wouldn't be very fun.

Larry  Mathis: Would not be very fun at all.

Howard Farran: One of the most fun things any fireman will tell you is working his 24-hour shift with his homies. He's been putting out fires ... and by the way I was talking to my fireman patient just the other day. They're down to not even 10% of the calls are fire related. It's 90% healthcare related. 

Larry  Mathis: That's true.

Howard Farran: One last thing I just want to say is try to think of yourself in the most vulnerable time in your life. When were you most vulnerable? Try to create a dental office for that person. Create a dental office that you'd want to be a patient. Create a dental office that you'd want your kid to be patient. Create a dental office that if you die, it'd keep going that way, and you're dead and your great grandchildren go there. Just try to treat other people like you want to be treated. 

Lastly, I just want to say, especially on your topic, I just think a minimalistic lifestyle is so much less stress. You love San Diego, so you go buy a house down there. Really? You want to maintain a house around Sand Diego? Why don't you just go stay in a resort on the beach in San Diego. You want to take boat out on the ocean? You can just go rent a boat on the ocean. I think that when these people spend a lot of money on all this stuff, it actually makes their life more stressful. I think the more minimal your lifestyle is, the less stress you have and some of the ... remember back in the day, the richest guy in our backyard was Keating? He had jets-

Larry  Mathis: Charles Keating.

Howard Farran: He had private islands.

Larry  Mathis: He had everything.

Howard Farran: He had yachts, he had everything and then when the market slightly dipped, what happened to him? 

Larry  Mathis: Boom, he's out.

Howard Farran: Everybody even knew he must have been hiding millions everywhere.

Larry  Mathis: Oh yeah.

Howard Farran: And how much money did you have hidden anywhere?

Larry  Mathis: I will tell you what's kind of interesting. I was at the Biltmore the day before he was led off and arrested in Los Angeles.

Howard Farran: And Trump's daughter made a comment about this, not to talk about religion, sex, politics, but one time they were walking by a homeless person and Donald turned to his daughter and said, "That guy is richer than me," and what he meant by that is he was carrying billion dollars in debt and that homeless guy didn't have any debt.

Larry  Mathis: Anything. 

Howard Farran: Trump did teach me one killer piece of advice. I remember when I was in ... gosh, I think it was when I was buying my first house ... I don't know, it was about '87 when everybody was at "The Art of the Deal."

Larry  Mathis: Yeah.

Howard Farran: The one thing I'll never forget about "The Art of the Deal" is that price is a matter to terms. He says, "I'll buy your house for a billion dollars if I can finance it $1 a month for a billion months 'cause I can rent it out for $1000 and make $999 positive cashflow. It was funny 'cause so many people were trying to get the right price on the home and then they got taken to the cleaners on the finance. They could have bought a significantly bigger home if they'd worked on the financing instead of 30-year mortgage at this percent, maybe a 15-year mortgage. That's another no-brainer thing. These kids are 25, they'll buy a house on a 30-year term and when I got my MBA at ASU they formally taught us that loan over 24 years is technically interest only and that if you have a 30-year mortgage and make 13 monthly payments a year instead of 12, it's now a 15-year loan. 

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, 15 to 18 months.

Howard Farran: So you're 25, why can't you buy your house on a 15-year loan and then, we all had part-time job and second jobs and tertiary jobs and they were Monday through Thursday, 9 to 5. What if they just did one Saturday a month from 8 to 5 and that was the money to make one extra house payment a year, so that 25, instead of paying off that house at 55, they'd be 25 and paid off at 40.

Larry  Mathis: At 40.

Howard Farran: Just know your numbers. Get financially smart. Larry, it was a huge honor that you came by the house today to talk to my homies.

Larry  Mathis: It was a lot of fun. 

Howard Farran: I hope everybody goes to your website and I hope before we know it we have two new audio books on Amazon.

Larry  Mathis: I'm gonna get that done. If I can just take one second and let them know about one more thing.

Howard Farran: Sure.

Larry  Mathis: We have a seminar. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it.

Howard Farran: 'Cause it's in Maui.

Larry  Mathis: It's in Maui.

Howard Farran: It's in Maui.

Larry  Mathis: Maui Dental Seminar. It's with some of the greatest minds in dentistry. It's been running for about 40 years and I took it over with a dentist out in Arkansas, Dr. Don Warren, and it's next January.

Howard Farran: Who's the guy, Don Warren?

Larry  Mathis: Don Warren.

Howard Farran: He's your partner on this meeting.

Larry  Mathis: He is. 

Howard Farran: Well then I want to podcast him.

Larry  Mathis: We'll get him out here.

Howard Farran: No, we don't have to do it here. 

Larry  Mathis: No, you can do it from Arkansas.

Howard Farran: So that meeting was actually started by a sacred couple in dentistry.

Larry  Mathis: Jim and Naomi Rhode.

Howard Farran: Jim Rhode and Naomi Rhode and Naomi Road is a hygienist whose brother was the famous Omar Reid.

Larry  Mathis: Omar Reid.

Howard Farran: So Jim and Naomi started this meeting 40 years ago in Maui.

Larry  Mathis: In Maui.

Howard Farran: And her brother Omar had a meeting Maui ... what was it called? 

Larry  Mathis: That one I don't know.

Howard Farran: What was that one called. I think it started with an O or something, but anyway, so talk about the origins of this meeting 40 years ago with Jim and Naomi Road, who were the founders of SmartPractice which he called Semantodontics,

Larry  Mathis: Used to be called Semantodontics.

Howard Farran: Then it went to SmartPractice.

Larry  Mathis: And now it's SmartPractice but their relationship in the seminar, Jim and Naomi Rhode were some of the forerunners of the seminar business in helping people to run dentist practices as a business and understand it as a business. Jim is an amazingly smart, intelligent guy as far as helping people in running a successful dentist practice. 

Naomi, incidentally, is one of the greatest speakers, not just in Arizona in dentistry, but literally in the world.

Howard Farran: She was President of the NSA.

Larry  Mathis: She was President of the National Speakers Association. President-

Howard Farran: No, no, no, it was the National Security Agency.

Larry  Mathis: I'm pretty sure it's National Speakers Association.

Howard Farran: She's a spy. She an inspired speaker.

Larry  Mathis: She's a speaker.

Howard Farran: Start with S P.

Larry  Mathis: She's actually one of my mentors and my speaking coach. So we took it over two years ago.

Howard Farran: SmartPractice, what was it called back then? 

Larry  Mathis: Semantodontics.

Howard Farran: Semantodontics.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, Semantodontics. 

Howard Farran: Okay, so continue.

Larry  Mathis: Great company.

Howard Farran: I want to tell you the most genius thing that Jim and Naomi Rhode ever did that no one would ever know. Semantodontics got into the management information software systems back when Dentrix, Eaglesoft, Kodak had SmartPractice. So they had Compudontics with this guy named Tom, and you know what was different about Compudontics that no one has ever done? They built in ... they did their own accounting in their own software. When in everybody else was selling $5000 for the software, they just had a subscription be like $100 a month but the accounting was in there and when I would go over there ... at the time I went over there a couple times, he had like 1000 dentists. Every single one of them knew their numbers. Every single one of them knew their costs and now we are 30 years later and all those companies have been gone, merged acquired and everything and no one knows their cost, but Jim and Naomi and Tom ... do you remember Tom.

Larry  Mathis: I don't remember Tom, no.

Howard Farran: When he sold Compudontics ... I think he retired up in Prescott or ... Tom Warler or Warner.

Larry  Mathis: Yeah, I don't know him.

Howard Farran: They were always ahead of their time. So when is that meeting?

Larry  Mathis: That meeting is January 2018. I believe the dates are the ...

Howard Farran: How do we find them on their website?

Larry  Mathis: 

Howard Farran: So Maui-

Larry  Mathis: Also like us on Facebook, I believe the dates are the 16th, 17th, 18th, at the Sheraton at Blackrock, beautiful place. 

Howard Farran: Mauidentalseminar-

Larry  Mathis: .com.

Howard Farran: There it is.

Larry  Mathis: There it is. You can pull up the agenda-

Howard Farran: 

Larry  Mathis: Okay, so the agenda is the It starts on January 15th, 16th, and 17th. Of course, you want to come early and maybe stay a couple of days, but we have Jim and Naomi Rhode will be speaking, as well as Wendy Briggs, talks about doubling your production. Oop, here we go, we got a video here.

Howard Farran: You know what you do? You email this YouTube to Ryan and we'll attach that YouTube at the end of the video and the Facebook.

Larry  Mathis: Awesome, perfect. 

Howard Farran: So they're gonna see your video and all that stuff like that. 

Larry  Mathis: Excellent.

Howard Farran: Thank you for all that you've done for dentistry. Thank you so much for coming to my house.

Larry  Mathis: Thank you.

Howard Farran: The only reason this podcast-

Larry  Mathis: It was fun.

Howard Farran: Is a rocking house success is 'cause I'm gonna get talented people like you to come over.

Larry  Mathis: Thank you, Howard. It was a lot of fun.

Howard Farran: Thank you so much.

Speaker 4: Come with us sometime to Maui. 

Speaker 5: Hawaii is just phenomenal.

Speaker 4: Backup software, open up the ...

Speaker 6: Everybody ought to be coming to this. We bring our staff, we bring our families and we have a great time. 

Speaker 7: This week in Maui has been amazing.

Speaker 8: What I enjoy most about the seminar is the ability to network with other dentists. I realize that when I come back each time, it's like, "Man, I integrated that this year. I integrated that for this year."

Speaker 7: [inaudible 01:13:33]

Speaker 9: Our office team has just learned great things, we've been able to network with other people. 

Speaker 10: All right.

Speaker 4: Excellent course. We come learn something every year. I can promise you that everyone will take at least one good thing back to their practice the day you get back home.

Speaker 11: Consider changes that you might have never thought of. It's a pleasure.

Speaker 12: I'll be back next year.

Speaker 13: It doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong. It means we have a different paradigm.

Speaker 14: I hope that next year you'll consider being here with us. It's an amazing experience. I met people who are in the forefront of dentistry, who think about things that most are still reading about or suggesting. These people are actually doing it. Team members who want to do something dramatically different in their practices next year. So I hope you'll look at the date. I hope you'll consider joining us. Aloha.

Speaker 15: The other thing technology I've got over here is [inaudible 01:14:24] nose on generating.

Speaker 16: Love coming to Hawaii every year. I try to give things to people to make you think. We talk about nutrition, we talk about TMJ, we talk about sleep problems, we talk about ozone therapy, laser assisted perio, all the things that really keep us on the edge in our practice. If we don't continue to change and this is a seminar for change, then our practices will die on the vine and we don't want that to happen. So come to Hawaii, have a great time, spend a little chill time watching the whale and have a lot of good comradery. 

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