Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1006 MacPractice Update with Mark Hollis, CEO : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1006 MacPractice Update with Mark Hollis, CEO : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

5/6/2018 9:41:19 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 302

1006 MacPractice Update with Mark Hollis, CEO : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

In 1987, Mark Hollis, a practice management consultant in New York City, began to research practice management software for several clients and friends, including a dentist and a family practitioner.

Mark determined that, thanks to their ease of use, Macintosh computers would be best for his clients. He bought a Macintosh II and began looking for suitable software for his friends. A year later, after attending numerous trade shows and seeing many demos, Mark discovered HealthCare Communications, Inc. (HCC). Mark knew that their software was the one that met his criteria, and soon MediMac, DentalMac, and ChiroMac became an integral part of his practice management consultancy.

Mark Hollis had continuous experience with MediMac, DentalMac, and ChiroMac marketing, sales, training and support for the next 15 years. He and his organization supported and consulted with over 600 clients in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. 20-30% of all dentists and physicians who used MediMac, DentalMac, or ChiroMac nationwide were Mark's clients, due in great measure to the superior ongoing local support he and his staff provided.

During the past decades, Mark was responsible for designing and implementing a number of marketing and training initiatives for Apple Computer. For example, he authored a business plan for the Apple SBSS (Small Business Selling System) initiative creating a duplicateable reseller/developer model relationship. This model partnership leveraged the marketing and personnel strengths of each to advertise and produce over 200 Apple seminars, which Mark presented for HealthCare Communications.

Mark delivered the very first vertical market seminar in the nation in an Apple Market Center. This model was followed by other HCC sales representatives throughout the US and significantly contributed to the success of HCC. At Apple's request, he developed and implemented a national training program for Apple MicroAge resellers interested in the healthcare market. He worked with an Apple Evangelist to the healthcare market to create and deliver a seminar program across the US at Apple Market Centers and SBA offices. Interested doctors who attended these activities were put in contact with local representatives. Many of Mark's sales and marketing initiatives provided the model for numerous HCC marketing programs. He was given numerous awards by HCC for his contributions and for being the top sales representative in the US.

The University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey (UMDNJ) requested that Mark construct and deliver a practice management course to dental students at their school, which he did for several years. Mark has also delivered several presentations at various dental and medical meetings.

Mark continued to work with DentalMac customers, providing training, support, and service. He maintained a cooperative relationship with the MacHealth™ division of WebMD, and worked together with the Lincoln Nebraska staff to maintain customer satisfaction. He, along with his wife and business partner Mickey, have been steadfast in their commitment to their clients, to MediMac, DentalMac, and ChiroMac, and to the Macintosh platform. Mark found many ways to enhance what his clients were able to accomplish with MacHealth software.

Mark was an Apple VAR for 12 years and participated in Apple's Science and Technology initiative. He was an Apple Product Professional, Apple Solutions Expert (ASE), a member of Apple Consultant Network (ACN), and a Macintosh Trainer for 10 years.

By 2004 Mark felt the need to advance the software and support to a new level to create the next generation of Practice Management. His thinking was shared by the original programmer of MediMac, DentalMac and ChiroMac, Patrick Clyne. Together they founded MacPractice, Inc. in May 2004.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1006 - Mark Hollis

AUDIO - DUwHF #1006 - Mark Hollis

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1006 MacPractice Update with Mark Hollis, CEO : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Howard: Hey, we are live at Townie meeting 2018. I'm here with Mark Hollis of MacPractice, which is in Lincoln, Nebraska. But you live on the east coast?

Mark: That’s right.

Howard: So where do you live?

Mark: I live in Manhattan.

Howard: In Manhattan?

Mark: Yep, and in Florida.

Howard: And in Florida

Mark: About an hour and a half from here.

Howard: But your company is in Lincoln, Nebraska?

Mark: That’s right.

Howard: Tell us the journey. How old is MacPractice? You said 2004.

Mark: Right We're on our fourteenth year.

Howard: Nice.

Mark: We basically built our business based upon the experience that we had with Dental Mac. So, my partner Patrick Kline led the development of Dental Mac and I was a top rep for ten years for healthcare communications that he developed Dental Mac for. And it was really the first graphical user application. It was the first software that had integrated digital radiography with trophy. It was the first software that had integrated dental charting. The first software that took advantage of quick time, and unfortunately the company was mismanaged, and the Dental Mac users were purchased by a number of companies that ended up with Kodak, which is now owned by Carestream and very few Dental Mac users have not already converted to MacPractice or prior to our starting our company in 2004, they'd converted to other products mostly out of resentment for being forced to go to another product or being forced by Kodak to their products.

Howard: When you go into a city you can tell if someone's on an iPhone or a droid. So, when you go to any city like Manhattan where all the rich people are in Wall Street, it’s all iPhone and we're all the poor people it's all droid. you go look over LA County, you know, Beverly Hills is all iPhone and the poorest areas of the poor are all droid and Macintosh in dental schools they are all on Mac. I would imagine you would have a huge advantage just because these people, I mean mac followers are cult followers.

Mark: I've done a couple of big dental student shows, dental education shows. I did ADA a couple of weeks ago, ADEA for dental educators and I did ASDA, in Anaheim just a couple of weeks before that. And the students tell me that 95% of them are mac users, but you know what, Howard, here's the challenge because I'm not Henry Schein and I'm not in the school with software that all dentists and the faculty hate to use, which is Axiom. They all hate to use it uniformly.

Howard: Axiom Henry Schein’s?

Mark: They purchased Axiom, they tried to get over a number of years. They tried to get a Dentrix enterprise, in the schools. And I think they got it in a couple of schools, but it really didn't work. It didn't scale to two hundred simultaneous users and it didn't work well for whatever reason, not really designed for a dental school. So they bought Axiom, It's a monopoly in the market, they have …..

Howard: For dental schools?

Mark: Yeah, eighty-five to 90% market share

Howard: Where they were they out of?

Mark: Canada very oddly out of Canada.

Howard: Really?

Mark: That’s right.

Howard: Interesting.

Mark: So, the barrage of information is so loud and they're obviously a PC software. So, it's so loud. You know, what Henry Schein's influence is in the schools that the students don't even know, even though they're using a mac, they don't even know that there is a Mac software that can run their practice.

Howard: Right.

Mark: And it's not new. It's not that our software is not new, but it's new to them. So, when we went to the show, 99% of the students that walked in our booth that signed up, we had a giveaway of a gift card, a $500 gift card, and we have hundreds actually come and sign up over the last few weeks.

99% of them don't even know that the computer they have that they can run a practice on it. So, it's not because we don't market it, it's just because we're marketing in, you know, in an environment that is so loudly pc and windows. The other thing that's interesting Howard is in the United States, there are studies that show 60%of companies, as of maybe about twelve months ago, there's a growing number, but 60% of them offered their employees a choice of Macs or pcs. And guess what the employees want, no matter what age? They want Macs, they don't want pcs. So, IBM for example, basically said, we can't afford to have employees walk away from our company that we want to hire, but we find that they don't want to work on a pc even though we want them and offer them a job.

But we tell them that you have to be on a PC. They say, no, thank you. I'll go look for a job somewhere else. That's how important it is now. So, they started a group contrary to the IT, people started their own support group within the, within IBM. And they are now getting rid of five thousand pcs every month and replacing them with Macs, they'd been doing it for twenty-four months because what they have found is number one, 73% of the employees that IBM want to be on a Mac instead of a PC. So, if you're a Mac user and you're functioning on a Mac, NASA did this years ago as well. So, if you're functioning on a Mac, why would you want to be on a development environment, you know that you don't like and that you're not as functional with.

Howard: That is amazing, What do you think people…

Mark: But in dentistry we have 2% of the market. So, I'm just saying this number is skewed. So, 95% of dental students prefer Macs. The dental professors prefer Macs, but yet in the office, in the practices, 98% are using pcs.

Howard: I would think you have tremendous upside potential with these numbers. 

Mark: That’s right. Once it becomes aware, that's why I'm working in the schools to basically work together with them, to let the students know what their choices are when they get out of school.

Howard: So, who are the biggest competitors in the PC business for your company?

Mark: So, I think right now you know it's interesting, right now it's kind of a hidden secret that we don't really talk about very much, but if you look online you know dentists are not making as much money as they have previously there, I think within the last year or two, they may have reached where they were a couple of years ago, but they're not growing beyond that. So, there's not a lot of money flowing in regard to purchasing software. So, we're growing, not at the rate that we were when we first started. There was a pent-up demand when we started, but our major competitors I think in the marketplace or as you would think Henry Schein and Patterson, Are you familiar with these? Have you seen this in “Clinicians Report?” That was in 2017 in the spring. Around this time last year, Gordon Christiansen, his publication, "Clinicians Report" did a survey and the results of their survey of their customers are right here, so it shows you the top ten products in the United States. These are my competitors. I want to show you a couple of very interesting things, Howard, that will surprise you. So, we hear a lot about the Cloud, right? People talk about the cloud. dentists talk, well, I'm interested in the cloud. I want to go to the Cloud. What I want to show you is that talking's not the same as actually spending your money because in the top ten products there's only one product here that is a Cloud product and it has less than 1% market share.

So, of all of the Cloud solutions that have been available for eight years, only 1% market share in the Cloud. Now, one of the things that Cloud vendors have talked about they have talked about their software being on a Mac? Well, their software is not on a Mac, it's, I call it a wolf in sheep's clothing because what it is it’s a browser connection to their database which is in Windows or it's in Linux in a data farm. So, they're not running their data on a Mac. And the reason that's important is because all of the issues with security. Today. we're sitting here, and we've been reading the …. Did you read the paper this morning about …? I don't know what paper you read, but did you read the newspaper this morning?

Howard: I read Apple News on my iPhone.

Mark: Okay, well I don't. Apple News probably didn't talk about Facebook, but the New York Times talked about Facebook this morning. And on the front cover of the New York Times.

Howard: Here it is. On the iPhone there’s Apple News.

Mark: Right. Oh. Apple news. That’s what you meant by Apple news.

Howard: You’ve got to sign up for anything you want to follow. So I follow Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Fortune, Wall Street Journal, but anyway what were you saying?

Mark: Right.

Howard: But I like the Apple News deal because I think for them to allow you to sign up for, it can't be fake news. It's got to be a journalistic.

Mark: I don't think they control if CNN isn’t controlling the news, if CNN was publishing fake news, Apple's not editing that.

Howard: Right, but I mean it's all biased news. It's all (inaudible:9.16) news, but it's not just blatant.

Mark: Well, I'm just saying CNN is not the only source they're using either, but I just gave CNN as an example, because that's the one you pulled up when you pulled up Apple News. But their sources are numerous, they’re not editing it. So, I guess what I'm saying is I don't think they're controlling the news, but they're also not intentionally publishing things that are suspicious like Facebook.

Howard: Right.

Mark: So, I think the issue I bring up, it's interesting you bring an iPhone, so I'm going to hold your iPhone while I talk about this? If you don't mind.

Howard: Sure.

Mark: Not really going to show anything but Apple, so I just did an update. Have you done an update recently to Apple?

Howard: Yes.

Mark: So, when you do an update, for example, to eleven point three, they say there's some more things they want you to do, but did you read the privacy message that Apple gave you when it came up? You didn't?

Howard: I did.

Mark: Did you know? Apple said, I'm just going to summarize what we both read because I just did this I think yesterday on my iPhone and Apple reinforced that we have some settings that we want you to do.

We want you to know how important your privacy of your data is to us and we want you to know that we only ask you to do the things that are absolutely necessary in order for you to take advantage of features that you may want to take advantage of that are in the iPhone operating system. Apple... I'm going to tell you something. I've been working with Apple for thirty years. Just imagine, I sell software to dentists, physicians, chiropractors, eyecare professionals. For thirty years, Apple has a list of all of their users, clearly, and many of them said, my name is Bob Smith DDS, or my name is Charlie Rodgers, MD. Apple would never, ever send a communication to their list of people, even though they knew that they were doctors in order to tell them that there was a software that worked for a doctor, they would never even do it themselves, let alone give me the list.

This is completely contrary to what Microsoft has done in terms of their data being exposed, exposing their customer's data by having back doors to their operating system for years or decades.

Howard: Microsoft.

Mark: Microsoft and so what I'm saying is right now we're talking about Facebook, but Facebook is cut from the same cloth as Microsoft. The most important thing is how much money I can make.

Howard: Right.

Mark: And now with Microsoft they still sell the operating system. Mac OS free. Every update is free. They want you to be in the most current version. They want you to be the most secure because every fix, like for Meltdown and Spectre you know what I'm talking about in terms of the chips Meltdown and Spectre. They already had the fixes in from the end of last year. They just didn't publicize it because they didn't want to say to the hacker community, by the way, we know there's a problem, but we've got a fix for it in our operating system, they didn't want to publish it because they didn't want the hackers to take advantage of it. Those that didn't already know about it. They came up with, for the last three operating systems, they have updates that address Spectre and Meltdown and instead of, unlike in Windows where they had a fix, but then they said, “don’t install it”, because the first million people that installed it are now twenty to 30% slower and they're having to reboot their computer constantly. So, with Apple, that doesn't happen. So, they’re much better and more current. IBM says that something like 80% of their Mac users are on the current operating system within thirty to sixty days. The Windows user tried to figure out some way to avoid updating to the most current version of Windows because the last time they did it, it messed him up for weeks before they got back to where they were again.

So, they're trying to avoid it. So, it's a really big difference in terms of the security, but it's in the DNA of Apple that I gave you that story because I had that history with Apple. It's in their DNA to protect your privacy. So, everything that you read about the federal government can't crack an iPhone and Apple's not going to help them. Apple will help them with things, but not to crack an iPhone to get access to your data even though they'd like to help them to get access to just that other person's data, just the other hackers data or the other terrorists data. So that's in Apple's DNA. That's why Tim Cook stood up and said there's got to be regulation in social media. He said it because of the fact that.. he is a company that they have lived that way and they're protecting our data and the only way to avoid ransomware.

So, if we talk about how does that apply to dentists, why is that important to dentists? So, it's important. Number one, because doctors, physicians, dentists, chiropractors, healthcare providers, hospitals, they're all subject to HIPAA fines and the fines are millions of dollars, but not just HIPAA fines. But also, state fines, every state except one or two in the United States has it's own privacy laws over and above HIPAA, which is the federal government's regulations. And if you don't, if you get caught not protecting the patient's data, then you are vulnerable to possibly millions of dollars in fines. A million and a half just from the federal government. If you send an insecure email that's $50,000 per email if you don't have it encrypted and you don't have permission from the patient to send it. So, it's unbelievable the amount of fines and they're happening all the time, but what's also happening is the hackers are actually getting into pcs, so you read about hackers, you've read about all the ransomware, I don't know if you know about all the hospitals that have actually been down and they didn't even get their data back or get access to all of the data ultimately. And they were attacked by ransomware. There's a lot of people think, well the best way to avoid ransomware is I'll go to the Cloud.

The Cloud doesn't work. And just to give you two examples of many examples. So, Linkedin got hacked, Facebook got hacked, Google’s gotten hacked and all these companies or companies in the Cloud that are actually, that's their businesses is in Cloud and they can protect their own data. There's also a shortage of three hundred thousand cybersecurity job openings that they can't fill right now in the United States and the Cloud vendors need them. But the two largest companies within maybe about twelve months, that have happened, that are great illustrations, just to prove the point, is a company called All Scripts which happened recently, but then just a couple of months, one of the largest electronic health records vendors in the United States, all in the Cloud and every one of their clients got hacked in the Cloud. So, they all got ransomware. They were locked down.

If you were going to a hospital to have an emergency surgery and they had All Scripts, you couldn't have the surgery, so your loved one could die because of the fact that the data was hacked in the Cloud for All Scripts. Greenway Health is the other one I was trying to remember. So, Greenway Health a few months before that was hit. Now Greenway Health has both client server, data that resides either in the client's office or somewhere else, that somewhere else they put it that they control, and they also have data in the Cloud on a shared server where they're sharing with other vendors and all of the data in the Cloud was hacked. The other was not hacked and hospitals for example, so they had four hundred, what they call client organizations that had their data hacked and it was locked up with ransomware. One organization as an example were several hospitals in Kentucky. So, there were several hospitals whose data was not available, and the patient's data was then hacked and made available. And the credentials were there.

Howard: So, Gordon Survey 2017.

ark: Yes.

Howard: Said that Dentrix was a number one at 31 % market share, Patterson's Eaglesoft was number two at 26%, Softdent number three at 11%, Practice works number four at 6%.

Mark: These are only three companies. So, in other words, you just said two products, but they're one company, right.

Howard: Softdent Practice work,

Mark: Right?

Howard: And then Easy Dental Zone by Schein too.

Mark: Which is owned by Schein, so now you take that ….

Howard: So that’s 5%, right? And Open Dental has 5%. And then you, your next at MacPractice DDS five point one at 2%, then Curve, then at 1% Diamond Dental, then Mojo at 1% but again, it's very interesting.

Mark: So basically, less than 2% of dentists are on a Cloud solution which is another misnomer. Everybody's talking about the Cloud. But, this is an illustration evidence of the fact that they're not buying the Cloud. They're just talking about it.

Howard: One of the problems I hear in the street about Cloud is that now that people are buying a CBCT. Just to upload one image to the Cloud, that clogs the pipe for a long time. In fact, most people that even going up to the Cloud, they're storing their CVC, their radiographic images in house because they're too big a file to transport.

Mark: Right.

Howard: Do you agree with that or disagree with it?

Mark: Well I want to give you, I'm not an expert in that area, but I want to tell you because I also do medical, that having a remote access to images with a PACS server is not uncommon, but in hospitals they’re using every, all the treatment is required treatment. In other words, you don't go to a hospital unless you have to. Dental practice, they're selling treatment, some of it's required and some of it is I'd like to sell to you, so it's elective treatment and so they can't afford the amount of time it might take for an image. If you go to a hospital and they tell you, “we'll have the image for you in twenty-five minutes, go back in the waiting room. We'll bring you back out again.” Then you're just going to accept it because what choice do you have? You go in there for something you have to do. Go to a dental practice and they say, you've got to wait twenty-five minutes. Forget about it. I'll leave. Tell me about it when it's done, so you need it right away. So, I think it's impractical probably in a dental practice and I think most dental practices don't want to make the investment in the equipment that requires a PACS server in order to be able to do that.

Howard: So we know..

Mark: It’s just one reason.

Howard: We know you have a lot of upside. We know the majority of dentists have an iPhone, not a droid. We know the majority of dental students love Mac, not a pc. You're 2%. We know security is a big deal of Apple.

Mark: Absolutely.

Howard: We know that it’s not an open source software, it's not as prone to viruses..

Mark: Right.

Howard: And all that kind of stuff. What about the guts of running a dental office?

Mark: Our software does everything that these other software programs do that have greater market share, but it does it more smoothly. It's with a more consistent interface because it's been developed by the same developers over a shorter period of time rather than over thirty years in terms of development for Dentrix for example. So, it's easier to use, it's easier to learn, and because it's on a Mac, here are some other statistics I'm going to just refer to you that pc users, if we take an independent use of Macs versus pc, so pc users that IBM call for support eight times more. If you're calling for support, you're not working in a practice, if they require five point four times more onsite support where somebody has to come in and actually work on their computer. And IBM has found that they actually over the first several years, save $545 per Mac.

The pcs require one hundred and four times more updates. So, every time an IT person comes in and updates your Windows computer, they're interfering with the operation and you're becoming less productive. So, with MacPractice, they're more productive. Howard, here's an amazing thing. So, I had a user conference and I asked them, how many of you have spent more than $500 in the last twelve months for IT support in your practice? Less than 5% spent more than $500. Less than 5%. Commonly when Windows users come and convert them to MacPractice, they tell me they're spending, they just think that the only way to run a practice is, “Yea I got to pay an IT person at least $500 a month.”

Howard: It's why I still have a huge problem with a smiling Bill Gates. I mean, you know, now he’s, Mr Good Guy..

Mark: Mr Nice Guy yes.

Howard: A philanthropist, and he's out there trying to vaccinate everyone from polio and etc etc.. But you know, my whole relationship with Bill Gates is that he would put out some horrible piece of shit software.

Mark: Right.

Howard: That all of his own people were saying, “Please don't release it. We're not done with, it is filled with bugs.” And then every IT person, you know, you would give him $500 for a software.

Mark: Right.

Howard: And then you'd spend $2,000 on IT people, I mean, he intentionally screwed his own customers year after year after year because he wanted the sales he wanted the (inaudible 00:23:00). It was just money, money, money, money, money. it's the same thing we see with Zuckerberg today.

Mark: Yes.

Howard: I mean I got nine years of college and he always changes the security settings and I'm sitting here with nine years of college.

I'm a doctor and I can't figure it out and you know exactly what they're doing. It's just…money's the only thing that matters money's the answer.

Mark: Right.

Howard: So, Bill Gates, I mean, I still think he, you know the fish rots from the head down, so Microsoft still has a culture of it’s just only about money. And so, they're never going to be quality. They're never going to try to do a good job. They're just trying to extract all they can out of your wallet.

Mark: That’s absolutely right.

Howard: In the shortest amount of time.

Mark: Every fix for Windows is the next version of Windows. Right now, the fix for Windows is Windows ten, which is not free. Is it?

Howard: No.

Mark: Which by the way, they skipped Windows nine. I'm wondering if that's a coincidence. I OS ten, Mac OS ten and Windows ten.

Howard: And you look at Facebook, I mean, such a lucrative company. They're making so much money, but even that's not enough.

Mark: Right.

Howard: I mean, it's like they have to throw their whole integrity and reputation under a bus just for a couple more billion. It's like the J Paul Getty movie, it was amazing. My favourite line in that movie is, " What do you need? " He said, "More. ". Did you see the movie? "

Mark: Yes, I did. 

Howard: All the money in the world" I mean, it's just a complete disease, I mean, you know he just needs more.

Mark: So,let me tell you something else that would really freak you out. So, I read a study, a survey that was done just a couple of days ago. I read this report, and they surveyed IT experts and they asked them about their confidence level in antivirus and antimalware. So, if you've got Windows, you have to have your IT department or if you're a dentist, you have to pay your IT to install antivirus. You got to pay for the antivirus. You have to pay for the anti-malware, you have to perhaps pay for some encryption software, you got to pay your IT person to install it, and then you have to pay your IT person to regularly keep it up to date to try to keep ahead of the hackers, which they can't do. Clearly you can read all the articles, but clearly, they're not able to do it. So, guess what percentage of them don't have any confidence in antimalware or antivirus software? 60% do not have confidence in it even working.

Howard: And another reason let’s be first to throw America under a bus. Most of this stuff was developed and the NSA and, and you know the hackers, they say Russian or Chinese or North Korean. You really think North Korea has as specialized as your own NSA. These are weapons that our own government makes that then get lost.

Mark: That they couldn’t protect.

Howard: The government can't protect it.

Mark: They can’t protect it. So if they can protect it. Do you think a dentist is going to hire an IT person? Do you think they’re going to protect your data?

Howard: I think it's pretty ignorant of Americans to sit there and really buy into the propaganda that this came from the North Koreans and the Iranians and the Chinese. Are you out of your mind? This is world class stuff that you're dealing with and it's from your own damn government. Your own government makes this shit

Mark: Right.

Howard: But can’t keep it in its own building.

Mark: I'm going to share something else that's going to freak you out. I don't know if you know this or so. If you've got Windows, you have to have antimalware. You have to have antivirus ware and the NSA uses a third-party software to prevent, which obviously has not worked, to prevent malware and prevent antivirus as well. And they contracted large companies. So, we already know that for those people who it didn’t occur to that Kaspersky, which is a Russian company, might not be a company you might want to buy antivirus from, about a year ago the government finally said that the government agencies could not use it. It was pretty obvious. I thought already I wasn't using it, I was telling people not to use it. My clients on Mac, there's actually, I don't know if you know, but the Mac OS actually has antivirus built in and it has anti malware built in and it prevents software.

That's not recognized by Apple unless you turn off that ability it prevents it from being installed and it prevents pc software from being installed from the Mac and Apple is constantly keeping that up to date. And It's free. It's inside the operating system. So, most of my clients don't have anti-malware. Not that it wouldn’t.

Howard: Right.

Mark: Be a benefit, but the question is would it be a benefit if you can even trust them? This is going to freak you out. So, when I tell people this, they freak out. Okay. So, two of the largest companies. What companies if I said antivirus software. Who would you think of as the two largest companies? I'm going to tell you.

Howard: McAfee, Norton.

Mark; MacAfee and Norton. Okay. so what if I told you that it was discovered about a month ago that MacAfee and Norton in October decided that they've been trying to sell to the Russian government and the Russian government said, "Okay, well we'll buy your software, but you have to give us the code to your antivirus software," the same antivirus software that Americans are using and that American companies are using and that the NSA is using and other government agencies are using.

And guess what they did? They gave them the code.

Howard: Money's the answer. What's the question?

Mark: So, the answer to me is go to the company that cares about your privacy.

Howard: Yes.

Mark; Go to the company that has a history in their DNA, at protecting your privacy. Go to the company that stands up against the federal government.

Howard: Yes.

Mark: With Facebook. Here's the issue. I started to pick this up and tell you. So, Apple is protecting your data. We know that, we know that the government would like them to make it available and they won't. So, we know that Apple's doing everything they can. Are they perfect? No, but they're trying. They're doing everything they can do to protect your data, but if you install Facebook on here, based upon this article in The Times today, this guy installed Facebook, he ran Messenger and Messenger took all of his contacts on his iPhone and shared them with the world.

Howard: Yes.

Mark; All of his contacts, all of his history, everything he had, he can't get rid of things for twenty years that are on here. He can't get rid of his ex-wives and the contact information.

Howard: Just because he used Facebook

Mark: Because he used Facebook and Messenger on the iPhone and because it took everything in his phone book out and took all this other information, so he could have been done on McAwest, but this actually even took his phone book out and all the contacts, which means if you're there, your data, your contact information has also been taken.

Howard: I think most of America has accepted the fact that privacy is dead. I mean everybody knows their home address, social security number, date of birth and companies like Facebook.

Mark: I hate to be that negative. I mean, I think I understand that. To me, I guess I would prefer to think that it is not hopeless because if it is actually hopeless then you might as well spend every nickel you can get today because it might not be in your account when you go to get it.

Howard: So, what about cost, where does your product Macpractice DDS five point one, where does it come in as far as cost? So, someone would set up their own practice. And then if you were going to pick the Dentrix Eaglesoft, Softdent, Practice Work, Easily Dental, Open, Dental MacPractice. 

Mark: It’s going to be similar cost.

Howard: Similar cost?

Mark: Similar cost upfront. Ok? but over time, even in the first year, because of the fact that you're going to save thousands of dollars on IT support.

Howard: Gordon (inaudible 31:22) Gordon is an amazing man. His, “Clinician's Report.” All the older dentists know it as “CRA,” but they changed it to a “CR” – “Clinicians Report,” the conclusion is dentists have many software options to help with dental practice management. Dentrix Henry Schein, Eaglesoft Patterson continued to be the most used systems. However, Open Dental, Macpractice, DDS and Mogo have the highest reported user satisfaction across several key criteria, including overall satisfaction. And by the way, I just want to say for the record that if you go to Dentaltown, we just passed our five million posts. I hope you download the app onto your iPhone, your droid, but we have a search bar and I want you to use that search bar because that damn Google search bar costs me $50,000.

Mark: Wow!

Howard: And you can't upgrade the search whenever you want.

You got to buy a new box. So, every time I upgrade that search is a $50,000 check out of my pocket. But if you search say Dentrix or Easy Soft, and we have fifty categories, root canals, fillings, crowns. One of them is practice management software. All the threads on Dentrix and Softent and Eaglesoft. They're just bitching and moaning and complaining deals. There's very few software systems that have raising raging fans and Gordon even pointed out Open Dental, MacPractice. Which we're talking about to you today and Mogo. Is it Mogo or Mojo?

Mark: Mogo.


Howard: Mogo. those have raving fans.

Mark: I don’t know if Mogo has mojo, I’m not sure.

Howard: But they have raving fans. So, the two dream features that I've always liked to have. I don't know how this sits on your R and D, but when you talk to any practice management consultant, I go into a computer dental office.

They look at their software. The report generator will clearly show you that 80% of the stuffs never used.

Mark: Right.

Howard: But that is the problem because when I check into a hotel, they just have their checklists. There's like eight things are going to ask me and check me in. When I check out. it's another checklist, they check me out. When I take my car into Hertz, rent a car. I mean the guy standing out there in the street when he just got like five things. Like,” What is the mileage? “you know, just a few quick questions. But when they open up practice manager software and there's forty million, gazillion icons.

Mark: Right.

Howard: and you know, the dentist went to eight years of college, (inaudible 00:34.02) went to four years of college, the assistant went to a year of Apollo college. These receptionists have no training and there so overwhelmed.

I've always wanted two features I wanted to A. exit out of every feature I don't want to use. So that little girl, when she opened up that screen, it's just like The Hilton, The Hyatt, Hertz rent a car because you'll go in there and you'll say, well you didn't ask where they were referred from. Well shit, they got forty thousand things stimulating their brain. So, they missed an important thing. You didn't ask for their email address and the other thing is none of the dentists know their costs. So, because it's not integrated with any dentistry, Healthcare and government are the only two sectors that are ran where nobody knows their cost. I mean if you went to Alcoa or GM or Chrysler or any factory that makes spark plugs, their accounting and their practice management software, it's all one system and they'll sit there and say, yeah, we make this cup for forty cents and we sell it for fifty.

You go into dentistry and they're doing a filling for nine different prices depending on the insurance company and they don't even know what the cost of that filling is. So, streamlining it down to a system, not to mention when I went to talk to Price One Consultants, you could go out and get the biggest practice management consultant names for free to come in and say, okay, here's Sandy Purdue's version of Macpractice, so this is what Sandy uses, you know what I mean? And she could teach her whole consulting on your software and why Dentrix and Patterson and Carestream have never even entertained that thought shows you the arrogance of their company. You know what I mean?

Mark: So, I talked to Sally Mackenzie and the consultants that work with her. I know you know Sally.

Howard: Sally Pardue or Sally Mackenzie?

Mark: Sally Mackenzie.

Howard: She was the first consultant I had in my office. Is she still in Ohio?

Mark: Yes.

Howard: Or did she move to Florida?

Mark: No, I think she's still in Ohio.

Howard: Send her my love.

Mark: OK I will. So, when I talked to her and her group about doing something, I did offer that, and I remembered in our conversation about your mentioning that you were interested (inaudible 00:36:14) report. They didn't really take me up on it, but I would be interested in doing that. I think what we focus on is workflow and I think that's what you're talking about. Basically, streamlining the workflow. We've done a number of things, interaction with iPad, for example, for the patient to be able to fill their information out and have it go right into the program. Meaning there is no human being, some programs creates a pdf, but so many stalls to type from the pdf in order to get the information. The patient can take their photo, they can sign their forms so that streamlines the patient's operation, but it also reduces and eliminates some of what the staff does to make it easier for the staff.

So, it's key is workflow and I would love to have that kind of input to do that, if I had sample reports of what Sandy or what you for example would like to see and you want to send me some reports, I could see if I can incorporate that into our development to make that, possible with Macpractice. And you could say these are reports, these are the kinds of information. Here's a product that actually provides that information. The other thing that you have to have Howard, in order to be able to know cost is you have to know what the cost of your inventory is of your products. I don't think most software programs have integrated inventory, but Macpractice does. MacPractice has integrated inventory and I'm actually in the process of developing a marketplace, a unique capability within Macpractice, a marketplace for direct vendors.

So, you know what's happening in the industry is instead of buying from Schein or Patterson and other dealers, some dentists are buying direct and they're getting better pricing and so I want to offer a marketplace that's connected to inventory. So, when you run out of inventory, not only do you know what that cost of inventory is, and you know when you need to reorder it, but you also know when you are going to..

Howard: Can you log into that?

Mark: You can also you can, right within your application. Go look for a variety of places that you can order it and maybe get a better price.

Howard: Whenever I'm on your website is

Mark: That’s right

Howard: So, what do my homies find if they go to your website and What are they going to find out at

Mark: So, number one, a lot of websites that you go to you don’t get…

Howard: And on Twitter he’s @MacPractice. 

Mark: So there's a lot of information about our product, a lot of information about partners that we work with, like the integration that we're doing with Jive for VOIP phones to actually work with the system, with MacPractice. The integration that we have with online services that are for reputation marketing built, things are built into our software, secure messaging built into our software, integrated word processing. They'll find out about that. They'll find out about new products.

Howard: So, talking about Jive communication, that's an internet-based phone system. 

Mark: Yes, that's right. 

Howard: Okay. Now what is that called? Internet phone or web-based phone

Mark: VOIP

Howard: VOIP.

Mark: VOIP phone is voice over internet protocol. Okay. So unfortunately, that's a technical term and it, some people blur over right over when you say that. Okay. But basically, what it means is that you're going to, you're going to connect your phone and you're using an internet connection instead of using what they know is pots, which is plain old telephone system. So, it's going over a wire that's connected to your office. You should be able to save money. The key thing with VOIP phones is a lot of VOIP phones are not installed correctly. The internet service has to be of a high enough quality to be able to not have signals dropped. So that's an issue.

Howard: For the United States, you know, half of America lives in a hundred and forty-seven big metros like Pittsburgh or Phoenix. The other half live in nineteen thousand and eight towns, but for the half that live in the hundred and forty-seven big metros, what percent of those dental offices is the internet strong enough for an internet VOIP phone system? Reliable enough.

Mark: Because I’m from New York City, I want to tell you just because it's New York City, that doesn't mean that the internet connection isn't necessarily perfect everywhere in New York City, in a dental office, so every office needs to be tested, but there should be, I would say eighty to 90% chance that it's going to work, but there shouldn't be a presumption and needs to be set up correctly.

 Howard: How does a dentist check his internet for reliability, for voice?

Mark: A dentist is not going to know how to do it. What a dentist needs to do is work with a company that doesn't misrepresent themselves as doing something other than replacing their phone system with a VOIP phone system. They need to have a company that understands this is my responsibility, this is my business. I'm going to test it for you doctor, I'm going to let you test it as well and maybe try it out for a while before you replace the system that your entire practice is built upon. If your phone system doesn't work, your practice doesn't work. If your phone system drops calls or if there's a lot of crackling on the end, the connection with your patients, it's not going to work for your practice. So, you have to make sure that you have quality of signal, that you have quality and reliability.

You also have to work. What if the internet goes down? What if you know, do you have an alternative? So, this system also has a backup so if you wish to save and keep your one telephone line open, you can still make a phone call and still be in business even if the internet goes down where you are, which can happen. The other issue is they use like six different data. This is one of the largest companies of VOIP phones in the United States.

Howard: Jive?

Mark: Yes

Howard: And where is Jive out of?

Mark: And they were just bought by, LogMeIn,

Howard: LogMeIn.

Mark: Jive is in Utah. Utah is a great place for developing things.

Howard: We just did an issue in “Dentaltown Magazine Components” months ago. you know, you have Silicon Valley.

Mark: Yes.

Howard: And then in Utah, they call it Silicon Slopes and it is really the next big thing after Silicon Valley.

And what I'm reading on Silicon Valley is that they've really priced themselves out of the market. I mean a thousand-foot condo could be a million dollars.

Mark: Right

Howard: And it's amazing how many dental companies are on the Silicon Slopes.

Mark: There's also in the Midwest, there's also a silicon area in the Midwest, Lincoln, Nebraska in that area. It is one of the reasons that we are where we are.

Howard: Is that right?

Mark: Or we're in downtown Lincoln and we're just within steps of the University of Nebraska.

Howard: I went to Creighton and I missed a major business move that in hindsight, I shouldn't have missed that move. I went to Creighton university in Omaha, Nebraska and Nebraska did not have any professional football teams, no NFL, no NBA, nothing.

Mark: Right.

Howard: And they were the most insane college football town, big red, unbelievable. Then Oklahoma was going to buy an NBA team and I thought to myself, well, Oklahoma and they don't have enough people for an NBA team that's a bad market, that's a bad business, but they were the only show in town and Oklahoma has the most raving NBA basketball fans because it's the only show in town.

Mark: The only thing to do, the same thing I would say in Charlotte, the Charlotte teams, the same thing. There was nothing around Charlotte. Charlotte is built around those teams. Everything's built around those teams. The airport is probably there because of those teams. 

Howard: Yes.

Mark; But it's interesting too. I'm in the Haymarket district, that's where we are, which is right where everybody goes after the game.

Howard: So, you think this VOIP phone is, compared to two years ago, has it improved a lot?

Mark: If you have the right company. So, here's an example.

Howard: So, Jive was bought by LogMeIn.

Mark: Jive was bought by LogMeIn, recently.

Howard: Where's LogMeIn out of?

Mark: I'm not 100% sure. LogMeIn is a huge company.

Howard: Do you think it is bleeding edge or leading edge?

Mark: So, what I did I saw a couple of companies, I saw Weave and a couple of other companies that were doing VOIP, primarily Weave and Weave doesn’t represent themselves as a VOIP company. It’s sort of like a distraction. Weave have this software, but the problem is you're replacing your phone system. You want a company that understands how to replace your phone system so that with something that's better and not just less expensive but also is sufficient to run your practice and better. So, I started looking for an alternative because my clients were asking me about that company and I wasn't happy with them. We had our clients that went with it and had very uneven experience and I don't want to work with the company. I don't want my reputation resting on it or my clients penalized by having something. So, I found a company that is much larger.

They have six data centres that they work with today around the United States. The location of the data center will help you with your signal. They work with Comcast and other cable vendors to be able to actually circumvent the data center in some cases to give you a better signal. They understand the market. They have a lesser price per phone. I've worked together to develop things inside my software that are not available with other products. So, for example, right now in the first release of what we're doing, it's possible for the front desk staff to click on an icon in MacPractice and dial the phone from within the practice management software. They can do it from the patient view right now, but they'll also be able to do it with their calling a referring provider. We'll also do other things integrated with scheduling, integrated with pulling up the patient.

That's our phase two that we're working on right now where it'll pull up the patient's record inside Macpractice with caller id when the patient calls. Here's a cool feature. So, at the front desk, your staff is sitting at the front desk and other people are talking to them and talking around them at the front desk and they're trying to talk to somebody on the other end of the phone and the other person on the other end of the phone can hear everybody around them and hopefully this person can even hear themselves. Right? So, in conjunction with Polycomm, to my knowledge, this is the only system that does this, they call it acoustic fence. So acoustic fence, which works with Polycom with Jive means that while you're standing at the front desk and I'm talking to you, if you pick up the phone and talk to the other person, they can't hear me. They can't hear anything around you. All they hear is you. There's an acoustic fence. They have the experience that you want your patient to have, that you're only dealing with them. They don't want to think that you're talking, that you're distracted when you're talking to them. They want to know that you're talking just to them and acoustic fence does that.

Howard: Soon Dentaltown,

Mark: Just an example.

Howard: On Dentaltown we have fifty categories and categories start with anaesthesiology then assistance, then associated organizations, then Cadcam digital technologies. Then you have computers and software and if you go to the computers and software then it's computer hardware, computer maintenance. Then we have practice management software and then we have every single software listed so you can go. So, do you follow the Macpractice software?

Mark: When I have an opportunity, I try to go on.

Howard: So you can go to…

Mark; I mean I do definitely, but I don’t do it every day.

Howard: So, you are considering MacPractice, (inaudible 00:48:03) you could go there, and you can see what all your (inaudible 00:48:03) are saying.

Mark: Whenever anybody enters something on MacPractice, I get it. I mean I'm subscribed to that thread.

Howard: And you can subscribe to threads. There's quarter million dentists on Dentaltown and we just celebrated our five millionth post.

Mark: Wow, that’s fantastic.

Howard: And the thing I still love about Dentaltown is when social media started, it was email groups. It was dentist at CompuServe at dentist at Yahoo. And you opened your email, just endless unorganized newsfeed and every social media company went with that format. They just got to out of your email box and then they moved it into My space. And then Friendster, then Facebook and Twitter, then Instagram, then LinkedIn where it's just an endless newsfeed and that's cool. I love it. I follow those. But what I love about the computer message board system.

Mark: Yes.

Howard: is, that's what the original scientists who developed the internet. So that system was made in 1970. So, all your military scientists who built a (inaudible 00:49:17) which turned onto the internet still all use the message board format because it's organized. It's archive, it's searchable.

Mark: I agree with you 1,000% I couldn't agree more, I think we've lost a lot with social media not reemphasizing or maybe reinventing and improving message board because the organization is what makes it kick, there's so much information, but how do I segregate it. I mean, I can't do a Google search now. You can't trust a Google search. I don't know if you know that, you do a Google search, but Google has the algorithm so it favors advertisers.

Howard: Right.

Mark; So, you can't trust a Google search, but everybody said, “I don't have to build that in. I don't have to worry about organizing data”, because they'll do a Google search and find it. No way.

Howard: So, when you do a Google search, say if you search podcasts, well, Scott Galloway at NYU Stern is buying Google ad words for podcasts or Joe Rogan. They're going to serve you up all the podcasts that's paid to play. So, it's really hard, organic is getting harder and harder. But what I want you to do is to realize that I'm on Facebook and in Facebook group if I'm say a pro cosmetic dentists, I'm pro composite and you post, well amalgam last four times longer. They just delete you, they just unfriend you. They don't want you to pop their bubble. If someone gets on there and says,” the cheapest way to do dentistry is a $17 impregum impression and send it to your lab. Man, he's made a thousand. Well they don't want to hear that. They want to hear no not at $17 impregum.

Howard: No, you want to $17,000, true dam and you want oral scanner and you want chair side milling. And if you say something they don't like, they just unfriend you, delete you block you. What I love about Dentaltown is I know what you think. I know what bubble you live in. I know what Kool-Aid you drink, but on Dentaltown you just can't delete me because you don't agree with me. You have to deal, and it's organized and it's searchable and it's just a better way to get information into your head and I think just like news media, I mean all the democrats are only watching CNN. All the republicans are only watching Fox News. And then Twitter did a study on people who follow all the democratic candidates and all the republican and there's no cross fertilization.

I mean everybody on Twitter that's following these guys are all the same people. (inaudible 51:55) So, you see there's no cross pollinization, so you have these two opposing sides that are; pretty far apart and that's what you see in Facebook groups where you just delete everyone until you're in a bubble and you're in a safe zone. It kind of reminds me, my two oldest sisters are Catholic nuns. Well, I mean do you think you can send them to a one-day seminar and make them Jewish or Buddhist or Muslim.? And what do you think it would take to make my oldest sister has been a Catholic nun for thirty-five years to leave her religion and become a Lutheran.

Mark: Not going to happen,

Howard: It's never going to happen. But in dentistry, the closest it's going to happen is on Dentaltown. So, go there and it’s the battle of the best ideas. So back to this digital phone deal.

Mark: Yes.

Howard: It hooks up to your software. So, when I call in, does it pull it up and tell me that Mark Hollis is on the phone.

Mark: Yes, it has caller ID and it will tell you who's on the phone and what I was talking about is that if you were a patient, for example and you called, it would actually pull you up in the database. That's what we're working on right now. So, your record could actually come up and I know everything that I need to know about you. I know your balance. I know who your family members are. I know whether you have an appointment scheduled or not and I don't have to go find that record to do that for you because it's already there.

Howard: But you would be willing to entertain talking to practice management consultants.?

Mark: Absolutely, sure, I’d like to do that.

Howard: How can a practice consultant listening to you, contact you?

Mark: So the best way to contact me is go to and I would suggest that what they do is click on demo just as if they were a client or prospective client. The good reason for doing that. There's two reasons. Number one is there they can provide me their information and that registration goes to me first, so I'm the CEO of the company, but I look at every registration on the site to look at a demo and there's a place for them to put a comment. They can identify themselves as a consultant and then they can also write me a little note. I'll respond personally to them if not within minutes or hours it will be within a day depending upon whether I'm out of town or at a trade show like the townie meeting. So that's the best way to contact me.

And I would be happy to talk to any consultants. I'd love to talk to consultants, I want them to know about how MacPractice works and I want to know about what they're interested in their clients having and seeing where there's a match and seeing how MacPractice can be a better product as a suit for their client. And I'd like to be able to give them information that they may not have. So, because 98% of dentists are on pcs, then 98% of dental and consulting is done with pc software and they may not be familiar with the difference between a mac and a pc. Why they might have a client who might consider one versus the other and how they might benefit. Plus we can provide them some training so that they're more familiar with MacPractice as they might be with Dentrix, Eaglesoft or another product.

Howard: Very nice, you know, I’m very bullish on you because I say if you're only a 2% market share, you only got up from here. And I think, there's a lot of people like Scott Galloway, professor at NYU school of business. that's going through the breakup of Google and Amazon and I mean these monopolistic powers. We're standing here as we talk at day two of Mark Zuckerberg getting grilled in front of congress. I think the pendulum towards the wild, wild internet west, of just stealing everything you've got and giving it to anyone. They know my life.

Mark: Let me just correct you, selling it to anyone.

Howard: Well stealing it from you and then selling it.

Mark: That's what I mean and it's in the fine print,” we're going to take your stuff and then sell it to anyone we want to”.

Howard: Did you see them where they printed out the terms of use on the Facebook deal? They printed it out I mean it's crazy. But everybody thinks like from 94 to March of 2000, everybody thought the Stock Market would go up for eternity, but it's always a cycle. It's always two steps forward one step back. What goes up must come down and right now all our privacy has been breached. So instead of it just getting worse and worse and worse and privacy's dead, what's more likely is the pendulum to swing back. I like Tim Cook's answer and they said, “What would you do if you had Facebook” And he said,” I would have never been in that situation.”

Mark: Right wouldn’t have created a situation.

Howard: It's like someone asks you, “What would you do if you got busted drunk in a whorehouse in the middle of the night?”

Mark: It's irresponsible.

Howard: You would just say..

Mark: I’ll take our data.

Howard:” I wouldn't be in that predicament. You're never going to catch me in a whore house in the middle of the night”.

Mark: Did you have a good answer? Did you have an excellent answer?

Howard: I love what you do the final question is, “did you watch any of the Steve Jobs movies? Ashton Kutcher was in one.”

Mark: All of them. Of course.

Howard: What was the other one? Not Ashton Kutcher.

Mark: Fiennes, wasn’t it? It was Fiennes. So, there was one with Noah. I think his last name is Noah. There was one with the Ralph Fiennes, I think is the most recent one. Michael Fassbender right.

Howard: Okay. “Rotten Tomatoes.” Who is that guy in there? Michael Fassbender

Mark: Michael Fassbender.

Howard: Kate Winslet, she was in the Seth Rogen, Kate Winslet was in Titanic. Seth Rogan

Mark: Seth Rogan played Steve (inaudible 57:56)

Howard: I think the most interesting thing I like about that movie, and I read his biography, but it was the official biography, is that so many humans get confused. I mean, the guy delivered an unbelievable company to the world and an unbelievable product, but then people are also confused because he was a horrible father and a horrible husband. You know, those types of people are really complicated.

Mark: He was a horrible father to one child and he didn't recognize her as being his child. And so, I don't know that he was a horrible father to the other children. You know he was probably very distracted, but you know…

Howard: He was given up, he was adopted.

Mark: Yes, right.

Howard: I've read studies and adopted children have more anxiety issues. They have more separation issues but the point I'm trying to make is that it's sad when a human can be so productive in one area.

Mark: And he is flawed.

Howard: but they are humans and are flawed. I mean, it just like your own dog. You might love your dog more than anything the world. But he did eat your pair of shoes and shit on the carpet, you know what I mean? So, you give your dog a pass.

Mark: But you tend to forget it when he is licking your face.

Howard: It’s the same with your parents, your family and your friends. I mean, I know so many dentists are so torn up by some issue with their dad or some issue with their mom, it’s like, look, they made you, you're a doctor, you're in America. They sacrificed…

Your mom moved all the way from Pakistan to give you a better life. And now you're throwing her under the bus for this one thing. I mean, you very seldom will meet someone who's perfect in every single category and I might be the only one, you know, that's like that, perfect in every single freaking category.

Mark: Is that true Ryan?

Howard: So lower your expectations of people and try to celebrate their achievements. I mean look at the US Senator who went from Saturday Night Live to a US Senator. What was his name?

Mark: Franken?

Howard: Yeah, Al Franken. I mean how many people went from Saturday Night Live to the US Senate, but during a selfie he grabbed your ass. I mean okay, weird.

Mark: Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Howard: Strange.

Mark: Look at Governor Ronald Reagan became our president and he was an actor.

Howard: Yeah, so, stop throwing people under a bus because one thing of them is weird and strange and hard to explain. You're not that person that we're talking about. This is extremely predictable and stable. The trillion circuits in our brain are completely more random variants. They are standardized products. Probably the difference in my trillion circuits and my own brother’s trillion circuits, even though they have the same mom and dad can be two totally different machines. You don't know what's working, what's not working. 

Mark: So, I just want to go on the record as saying that unlike you, I'm not perfect. I just wanted to know. So, if anybody's listening as this is actually being recorded or presented and I just want you to know I'm not perfect, but I do always do the best thing that I possibly can by my customers and that's in the DNA of MacPractice. Take care of our customers. We're Apple. We work with Apple. That's not a coincidence we've done it although people told us we were crazy for the last thirty years. They told us Apple's going out of business, why would you be in a business that's only Apple? You know, that only works with Apple products, but we believe in this DNA. We have the same DNA, so we take care of our customers, but we're not perfect.

Howard: Well, I want to say that at age fifty-five. I still have never been w-w-w-w-w-w-w, wro... I can't even say the word because I've never been it. But thank you so much.

Mark: You don't say the word. I’m -s-s-s-s-s-... I’m sorry, what's that word?

Howard: So, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for all that you do for dentistry. Thanks for coming to the townie meeting. This is the second time I've had you on the show. And thanks for all that you do.

Mark: Thanks Howard. And thanks for those of you that are taking the time to take a look at this, I hope that you've learned something and hopefully you'll reach out and engage with MacPractice.

Howard: So, it's Twitter @MacPractice. Have a rocking hot day.


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