Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1069 Making Money After Dental School with Dallin Gomez : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1069 Making Money After Dental School with Dallin Gomez : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

6/23/2018 9:56:19 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 341

1069 Making Money After Dental School with Dallin Gomez : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Dallin Gomez is 3rd year dental student at the University of Utah. He’s the founder of the mastermind group “Making Money After Dental School,” a group aimed at helping dental students and young dentists learn the business and money side of dentistry. He’s also the founder of, a website for young dentists and dental students with tons of free resources and dentist job listings. His favorite people are his wife, Katelyn, and two daughters, Rosemary and Chloe.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1069 - Dallin Gomez

AUDIO - DUwHF #1069 - Dallin Gomez

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1069 Making Money After Dental School with Dallin Gomez : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Howard: It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dallin Gomez all the way from Salt Lake City, Utah. He's a third-year dental student at the University of Utah. He's the founder of the Mastermind Group, Making Money after Dental School, that's a Facebook group, isn't it?

Dallin: Yes, it is. 

Howard: It's a Facebook group aimed at helping dental students and young dentists learn the business and money side of dentistry. He's also the founder of, a website for young dentists and dental students with tons of free resources and dentist job listings. His favorite people are his wife, Caitlin and two daughters, Rosemary and Chloe. That is so cool. So you graduate next May. Did you read the article in the Wall Street Journal last Monday about the Orthodontist who graduated $1,000,000 000 in student loan debt? 

Dallin: I sure did. From the sounds of the article, it looks like he lives about five minutes south of me. 

Howard: Yeah, Utah boy. So now you have two dental schools there. You have Salt Lake City where you go to. That's a public school, right? 

Dallin: Yup. 

Howard: And then Roseman is a private school in South Jordan. 

Dallin: That's right. 

Howard: Now is Roseman, is that they're only dental school or is it like Midwestern? Midwestern has them in Chicago, Glendale, Arizona. 

Dallin: It's there only dental school. Roseman has other professional schools in Las Vegas I believe it is, but the dental school is the only one that they have. 

Howard: So what's the difference in tuition between a year at Roseman and a year at Salt Lake City? 

Dallin: Oh boy, better not misquote this. This is not exact, but I think it's something like seventy-eight, eighty thousand per year there and it's about forty thousand in state at the University of Utah and probably sixty-five/seventy out of state. 

Howard: Right, and that's what we see. It was so common, you know, dental school just ten years ago it was thirty five/$40,000 a year. Then out of nowhere, it's seventy to a hundred thousand in all these private schools and these kids just want to get accepted anywhere. But the difference between paying $40,000 a year and $80,000 a year, like what do you think the average student in the University of Utah School of Dentistry and Salt Lake City, what do you think the average kid when he graduates walks out with total student loan debt versus a private school up the street in South Jordan, Utah at Roseman?


On average, the University of Utah, they're probably coming out with, well it's a little bit different for the first few classes which I'm a part of because they're only taking a few out of state. But now they've bumped it up so more than double that they're taking are out of state. So for the first few years, it's probably two hundred to thirty thousand average, maybe even less than that. Now it's probably up to two seventy-five, maybe even three hundred if you average out the out of staters. But that's what happens when you have the government who's just willing to lend all the money that you want for your a dental school. It's an interesting situation. 

Yeah, it's funny because the government always does this first, they break everything and ruin it and then if they ruin it then they say, "Well, it looks like you need our help to fix it." And the only reason US student loan debt is one point five trillion, and the only reason that the cost of a university education has been growing at two to three times the rate of inflation for the last two decades is because all the government money. If the government closed down the Department of Education and said, "We will never loan you another dime to go to school again," the tuition rates would fall in half overnight. And then if you said that, they'd say, "What are you, an education Nazi? What do you want to promote dumb people?" So they always got this big bleeding heart dumb idea and if you're against their dumb idea, then you're evil. 

And then the dumb people ... I don't even want to get started. It's so frustrating. So this is Dentistry Uncensored so I want to go below the belt for the knockout.

Dallin: Good.

Howard: You are probably more aware than anyone that Utah is the most crowded number of dentists per population out of all fifty states. So what would you tell a young boy who was born and raised in Utah? His mom and dad live in Utah, he grew up fishing and hunting elk in Utah and he just really wants to live in Utah, but Utah needs another dentist like I need to gain five more pounds


Dallin: Oh, that's a good question, really good question. I would probably say you can either leave, find somewhere that you're needed or you can spend a lot of time learning about business and dedicate yourself to that along with going to a dental school that doesn't cost $80 000 a year. But I guess the moral of the story, I would say you got to do something different and that different than what most people are doing these days who are graduating from dental school. And that's kind of why I've gotten involved in this whole thing in general, in the first place because it's just crazy some of the mentalities that people have. 

Howard: Now where were you and your wife, Caitlin, where were you guys born? 

Dallin: I was born in Texas, actually, grew up most of my life here and my wife was born in Idaho. She's kind of like me she was born in Washington and she's lived most of her life in Idaho until now. So she's actually lived in several different western states. She's lived in Texas, Idaho Utah. I've lived in Utah, Texas and a few other places so kind of all around the west. 

Howard: So where were you thinking you're going to go live? Let me say it like this, Ryan, who's the Dr. Demographics podcast we did?

Dallin: His name is Scott McDonald.

Howard: Scott McDonald. Where is Scott McDonald of Dr. Demographics, where is he in Utah?  

Dallin: I think he's up in Ogden or I could be wrong about this.

Howard: But he's definitely in Utah?

Dallin: Somewhere in the [inaudible 00:06:30] set front.


Howard: Yeah, he was podcast six eighty-nine. Dr. Demographics with Scott McDonald, just like Ronald McDonald, the hamburger, remember that? Is he the mayor McCheese or is he the Hamburglar? Scott McDonald. So it sounds like you and your wife are open to Texas, Utah, Idaho, Midwest, it doesn't sound like that you have to live in Salt Lake City. 

Dallin: Yeah, that's right. Right now we're heavily looking in Texas. We both like Texas a lot and that's where we're looking right now for practices. 

Howard: So you want to buy instead of doing a scratch? 

Dallin: Yeah, most likely I'll buy a practice pretty soon after I graduate. There's certainly benefits to starting up, but I think it's looking like we're going to buy. 

Howard: So scratch technically it's called De Novo and buy, and you have an amazing mind. I mean you started that Mastermind Group on Facebook. How many members you got on that group now?


Dallin: I think we just rolled over seventy-five hundred. 

Howard: Nice, and are they mostly dental students or ...

Dallin: Mostly dental seats. 

Howard: Congratulations.

Dallin: Thank you.

Howard: And you started with that, think about that you started that now you got seventy-five hundred dental students and the Mastermind Group. I just think that's amazing. So tell us how you're wrapping your mind around buying an existing versus starting a scratch De Novo practice?

Dallin: So it's the combination of just talking to different people and also the desire to have more of a, not guaranteed, but more predictable cash flow early on. But there's a big part of me that would love to do a startup, but probably those two things. I've talked to a lot of people who've done both and I think I'm just leaning more towards that for predictability. And also because there are a lot of opportunities right now where dentists are selling practices that have a lot of potential for growth and for improvement.

Howard: Okay, let's just dive deeper into that in case that flew over some kids head because a lot of the people listening are dental students and that one might just fall into their head. You're looking for hidden value, I mean when you go in and find a practice that's doing $500,000 a year and say he wants to sell it for $500,000 a year and all he's doing is cleanings, fillings, and crowns, but he's referring out two hundred thousand a year in Endo, he doesn't do root canals. He's referring out a hundred thousand a year in kids because he doesn't want to do pulpotomy, [inaudible 00:09:17] silver diamine fluoride. He doesn't pull teeth, he doesn't pull wisdom teeth. He doesn't do all this stuff and you start looking at everything he's not doing. He doesn't do any Invisalign, so now you buy a practice for five hundred thousand and you got a patient base and before you know what you're doing a million a year. That's hidden value. 

The opposite of hidden value and I've seen that a lot in my own backyard where there's some really highly technical guy that's placing implants, but he's really good on case presentation and he can sell these big cases. Then he sells it to someone who doesn't really place implants, doesn't know how to do Invisalign, but worse than that, he doesn't know how to case presentation. He can't present a case. So he buys this big practice. That’s collecting one point two five and he pays over a million dollars for it and within twelve months he's under six hundred thousand a year and he's upside down and it's crazy. And the older the guy selling the more likely he hasn't done anything new in twenty years. He's been on the golf course and he's doing amalgam, he's doing PFMs. He doesn't do anything fancy, but he's got the great personality. He's got the nice practice, so yeah, looking for hidden value. Buying existing you don't need demographics. Why do you need demographics if it's already running? But it is good to know, are you going to talk to Scott to ask him if he has any recommendations in Texas? Does he work like that? Does he say, if I was going to go to Texas, I'd look in these areas or ...

Dallin: Scott's one of the companies I've considered working with potentially even if I do buy just to scope things out. Also Dentagraphics, another great company, but you hit a lot of point’s right on the head. I love what you just said. I think for a lot of people it's tempting to look at the fancy offices, the dentist that are already doing really well and stating, "Oh, that's a practice I want to buy. That's the one I want to go into." And it can be a big mistake, it can be a big mistake. And I've heard it said that if you're going to buy a practice, you should buy a practice that's already producing what you can produce, what you can replace it with, the highest amount that you can replace. And I disagree with that. I think, well just me being more interested in the business side of things, the number side of things, I'd rather dive in to see where specific parts where I can improve it and get a better value and instantly improve the practice, gain equity and have less debt. So, for me, that's the way to go and I think that would be something that people should look into more, spend some time learning about how to analyze things. 

Howard: Well, you said you also were looking at Kent Miller president Dentagraphics. We podcast him, he was eight or six. We did two demographics, Scott McDonald with Dr. Demographics was six eighty-nine and Kent Miller with Dentagraphics was eight O six. So you're twenty-six years old and my practice is thirty years ago. You want to know how we had to do it thirty years ago. Do you want to hear one of these old dad stories where we had to walk both ways to school and it was uphill both ways and there was snow and wild coyotes when you cross the bridge?

Dallin: I'm in the middle of reading Sam Walton's book about Founding of Walmart and he tells about kind of the way he went out and scoped things too so I'm anxious to hear how did that go. 

Howard: So when I got to dental school in '87 I'd never see

n a computer. I mean computers were things that big government agencies and Fortune 500 companies had. So I went and got a six foot by four foot. Well, first of all, what I did is I wrote Washington DC a letter in an envelope and stuck a lip on it and said, "Hey, I'm graduating in '87," This was in '86, I said, "You're the department of economic security. Do you have any financial forecasts for the growth of America over the next several decades?" Sent me back this nice packet that said that they thought between 1985 and the year 2000 United States would create $30 million new jobs and half of them would be in five cities and it all turned out to be true. Half of them would be in Silicon Valley, Orange County, Phoenix, Boston, and Tampa. It all turned out true. 

So being born in a barn in Kansas, I thought everyone in California was on drugs and heroin and all that stuff. So you know, California wasn't a thought. Boston, I didn't want to live in the winters and Florida, you only had to go to Disney world one time it was too many insects and then I'm looking at this desert with no insects and no snow and no hurricanes and no tornadoes and no earthquakes and all that. So then I wrote to the Department of Economic Security of Phoenix, Arizona. Phoenix is the capital of Arizona and they gave me the projection from the '70 to the '80 to the '85 mini-census and they gave me their projections. And so what I did is I bought a six foot by four-foot map of the Phoenix Valley, which is Phoenix and Scottsdale and Glendale and all the suburbs. 

And they gave me the census information from '70 to '80 to the '85 mini-census. So I traced out the three hundred and three census tracts, got an index card, three hundred and three of them and a number two pencil and went to each card and in each deal I put a black pen where the dentist was, a yellow if they took capitation, green for Periodontist, yellow for Orthodontist, white for oral surgeon. And then I did by calculation the number of people per dentist and I did that for all three hundred and three. So I found these two zip codes, one was eight, five O four, four South Phoenix, which we call Ahwatukee. So Ahwatukee is Phoenix, are you familiar with Phoenix? 

Dallin: A little bit, just looking at maps.

Howard: Well, when you fly into the airport south of the airport is the largest city park inside any city in America. It's called South Mountain Park, it goes from 48th street to zeroth to 51st Avenue. It's a hundred city blocks long. It's a couple miles thick. Well, behind that mountain is a little sliver of Phoenix and it's Phoenix, but everybody back here calls it Ahwatukee. But I looked at that Ahwatukee one, it only had one dentist for six thousand people and it was building ninety homes a month. And then the next best was very north Scottsdale, way, way North Scottsdale, which is now like middle of Scottsdale and it was like a dentist for every fifty-eight hundred. But by the time you got to downtown Tempe, there was a dentist for every five hundred people. I'll never forget there was this sixty-two hundred South Mclean talk that had twenty-two dentists in one medical dental building and I thought what the hell were they doing? But anyway the worst is 450 Culver Street in downtown San Francisco is a building, one building. How many dentists are in that building? 

Ryan: I don't know, a lot.

Howard: Six hundred, I think it's like a hundred and fifty dentists in one building in downtown San Francisco.

Dallin: Oh holy cow.

Howard: Have you ever seen a hundred and fifty Kentucky Fried Chicken's all in one building. They're crazy, but anyway so I picked that zip code and I'd never been to Phoenix. I was in Kansas, I was doing it in the dental school class. And so then back then the only people computerized was Coldwell Banker. They were the first real estate company to have a computer data bank so I went in their office and then I said, "Hey, can you pull up an 85044?" He said, "Sure." I said, "Is there anything to rent there?" He goes, "Well, they just built this Safeway Strip center. It's got a Safeway, a Walgreens, a Chase Bank, a Pizza Hut, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

I said, is there any place in there to rent? He said, "Yeah, of course." And I said, "Well, I want two thousand square feet." He said, "Okay." So he got the lease from the guy in Phoenix, all computerized and they came back and they said it's going to be $15 a square foot for a three-year lease. And I said, "Okay, well I'm going to pay $20 a square foot for a five-year lease with two first right of refusal for the renewals." And he said, "Okay, well instead of paying $15 a square foot times three years, you're going to pay $20 times two thousand square foot for five years," So he said, "Well obviously you want us to do the build out." I said, "Absolutely." So he said, "Okay." So that was the lease, so now I got a highly visible traffic on 48th and Elliot. It only had a dentist for every six thousand people. 

They were building ninety homes a month in the zip code I didn't have a buildup. So then back then the biggest equipment supplier was Healthco. This was before Patterson. You know, you're old when you started before Patterson Dental did and so I went to Healthco and they drew out the plans for the two thousand square foot and it was four operatories and blah, blah, blah. It wasn't two thousand square feet, it was twelve hundred square foot, I'm sorry about that. Twelve hundred square foot, so it's four operatories and everything. I wanted all the top line, everything, in fact, they just had come out with the intraoral camera and it was called the Fuji Cam and it was thirty-eight thousand five hundred because selling your treatment plan presentation is everything. And that's what dentists screw up the most. The average American will buy a new car every five years from age seventeen to seventy-six. They will buy thirteen new cars with a median average price of $33,500. 

They will all be financed for five years. No one has a problem with this yet 90% of dentists will go their entire life and never sell one $33,000 treatment plan their entire life. And then there'll be eight dentists in that medical dental building and one dentist will do it every Friday. He's like, "Yeah, I just see patients Monday through Thursday because Friday we leave open because that's what I do my big cases like an All on 4 for twenty-five thousand arch or some big monster case." And that one dentist will sell around that median average price of a new car, fifty Friday's a year and the other ninety-five out of a hundred dentists will never sell it one time in their entire freaking life. So I knew I needed that $38,000 intraoral camera, which was the size of a small mini refrigerator in a dormitory. 

And he gave me the whole deal and I think he came back and he said, "Okay, well the whole thing is eighty thousand, how you going to be paying for this?" I said, "Well, how we're going to pay for this is you're going to give me a five-year lease and on the sixtieth payment I'll give you $1 and it's mine. So he goes, "You're going to do a lease to own." And I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Nah, we don't do that. We need cash. You need to go to a bank for that." And I said, "Okay, well you just lost your money because my dad told me that he would never give me a dime because he said if you feed wild animals, they forget how to hunt." He goes, "I don't believe in welfare, dual care, school care ... if you're hungry, you'll be hungry and you'll be successful." He goes, "You're not going to be a daddy, you're going to go up scared out of your mind and make it work." I said, "Well then it's no deal, so you just lost a deal, but what you out to do is tell the president of your company in Texas what," it was in Dallas, Texas, "what went down just so he knows he just lost an $85,000 sale." They called me back two days later and said we'll do the deal. So I graduated May 11, drove straight to Phoenix, a hundred and thirty-three days later, it was September 21st and it was open. The slowest thing was all the construction and all that stuff, Healthco put everything in. So I got into a dental office with $0, perfect demographics, and then I opened up and the first couple days it was Thursday, no patients, Friday [inaudible 00:21:14], no patients. Called my dad, scared to death. He said, "Well, Howie, get out there and run for mayor. You got the whole weekend, get out there and run for mayor." 

So I sat there and I got my backpack. I had my little toothbrushes with my name on it and the phone number, eight, nine three care and I got gloves and I got a big map of Ahwatukee of every street and I started every Saturday and Sunday morning 8:00 and I walked down the street and I knocked on their door and I’d say, "Hey, I'm Howard Farran and I'm twenty-five years old. I just opened up that dental office up by Safeway. I'm going to be here for the next forty years just thought I'd go around and meet the neighborhood." Two out of three people would say, "Oh okay. You know that's kind of weird I've never had a dentist come to my door, whatever, whatever." Every third door, "Well, you know I broke my teeth. Do you see this hole here?" 

I mean they'd be standing on their porch on a Saturday morning in their boxers and I would be sitting there with a flashlight looking in the mirror trying to tell them what's going on and then they'd say, "Well, I need to come in and see you." And I'd open my appointment book and I said, "Well, I got an opening twenty four hours a day until the end of time and new patient appointments were an hour and a half and I did not quit on Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon until every day, seven to seven, Monday through Friday, every hour and a half I had a new patient coming in.

Dallin: Love that. I love that.

Howard: And then by my dental office door, I put a box of cards and then I went next door to Safeway and I asked for the manager and the manager came and he was a young, hungry kid, a hungry guy, married three kids at home, all that stuff. And I said, "Here's the deal. I went and planted ten thousand of these flyers." Come in, new patient exam, whatever. I think back then it was $35 for a new patient cleaning, exam and x rays, but that was thirty years ago money. I said, "If you put these on, each one of your checkout stands and you tell your baggers in one of their bags, stick one of those flyers in there, I'll do you and your wife and kids for free. So he brought his wife and kids in I fixed all of them up for free and it was so funny. The funniest thing about it was how the other dentists would call me up. I'll never forget this Mark Woodland called me up one day and he's across the street, he says, "Howard, you just got to help." 

He said, "My wife and I can't figure out how your flyer got on her kitchen table. It didn't come in the mail, it wasn't a stamp on it. No one can figure out how the hell that ... I'm just curious. I don't care. I'm just curious how it got in here." So I told them what I did and he said, "Man, that was an idea because we never even figured it out." And so I went to the beauty salons. There were three or four beauty salons and I said, "Who's the owner of this thing?" Then I said, "I will bleach, bond, veneer, Ortho, whatever, I will do you a smile makeover if you put the before and after pic ... I'll take the pictures, I'll frame them, but you got to put in your salon, your smile makeover by me. 

And did that. I think there were like six salons and like three or four went for it. Then I went to the eighteen churches, this was the biggest thing I did and by the way, did I tell you Pastor Don just passed away?

Ryan: No.

Howard: Oh my God, it's so sad. The first guy who took me. He just passed away, Pastor Don Snyder of the Lutheran Church right next to my office. I went to all the churches and I told them, I said, "Look, I got two older sisters that are nuns and I know the two dentists doing their dentistry for free. One's in Wichita, Kansas [inaudible 00:24:39], ones in cloister Carmelite monk in Lake Elmo, Minnesota, and I know that dentist that's fixing her up for free. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go around and I'm telling you I will fix your pastor's teeth. I'll do it free." That's why we like Catholics the most because they're not married. They don't have a bunch of kids. You only had to fix that one guy, but there's only two Catholic churches and some of them Lutheran men had like five kids. So I went around to all of them and I also told them all. I said, "Well, you're up there in front of a lot of people. You're up there preaching in front of a thousand people." So three or four of them got a smile makeover too. It was huge and I mean it would be [inaudible 00:25:18], little old ladies that bring me [inaudible 00:25:33]. 'Well, who can we thank referring to you?" "Well, I brought in the church message and it said Father So and So wanted to thank Howard Farran for doing all of their dentistry, volunteer." It was just crazy.

We didn't have the Internet, we didn't have smartphones and computers and Facebook pages and Twitter. This was just good old fashion, how do you get elected to mayor? And that's why I tell these young kids I wouldn't even do it digitally. Do it in the flesh. Get out there and run for mayor. Go door to door. Every single time I ate at a restaurant, I would go up to the manager. I'd introduce him to my wife and four kids and press the flesh and shake their hand and tell them where I'm at and I give them my business card and I'd say, I'd turn over the business card and said, "Hey," and I'd write in there, "Dawn, let him come in for the cleaning exam next week, no charge on his first visit and I say, "You show this to Dawn because I just signed it and she'll know that you know your first appointments on the house." It was like I could go anywhere I traded. Anywhere I spent money, anywhere I would go, I would get a body in the office.

Dallin: Love it. I love that. I knew I was going to learn a lot here in this interview. That's one of the reasons I was excited for it. That's awesome. I love that mentality of doing what it takes. I just love everything you just said. How many new dentists do you think, Howard, would think that the stuff that you did is too much of a hassle and not worth it, beneath them? I'm sure you have seen that mentality from a lot of people, but you got to do what you got to do to be successful. 

Howard: Ryan, I want you to make me a slide. I'm going to answer this question with a slide. I want you to make a slide. Will you listen to this? Okay, look at this square, I want to make a square and the first one is B to B, and it's going to be 80% abundance and 20% fear. And then the second column is going to be dentist and dentists I believe are fifty/fifty abundant and fear. And then there's B to C, and I believe they live in 80% fear and 20% abundance. I'll give you some examples when you're trying to go into business selling to the American people, the American people, four out of five live in fear. They live paycheck to paycheck, the sky is falling. They're very scarcely minded, like if I get a piece of pizza then you're not going to eat pizza. 

They don't realize they can work together, grow their pizza to twice its size or three times its size and all have more pizza. When you talk to dentists, half live in fear. When you're a young dentist and you want to learn how to learn how to place implants or learn how to do Invisalign. Let's look at Invisalign, it's $6,500 a case. The stocks going crazy and the reason it's going crazy since I was little only the most gnarly looking daughter who could never get married, reproduce and have offspring, would get the orthodontics. You had to fix her up so someone would marry her. Now they're coming in at age forty with a little slightly rotated tooth and a little chip and dropping sixty-five hundred, so Ortho is going to grow. I seriously think in twenty years there won't be a forty-year-old woman on earth who doesn't think she could benefit from Invisalign. 

So you go into that orthodontist across the street from you and say, "Hey, I want to learn Invisalign, but I'm right here in Salt Lake. I don't want to fly to Dallas or New York City to learn Invisalign when you're right here and everybody says you're a great doctor." Half of them will say," Well, if you want to learn how to do Invisalign you need to go back to school and be an Orthodontist and [inaudible 00:29:20]." And they live in fear and it's great because you just realize you just diagnosed this guy as a fear-monger, so you'll never meet them again. You go to the next door he'll say, "Oh, that's cool. What is your name? Dallin, really you graduated and come on in." And in every one of these large cities, I'll show you an Orthodontist. Who's the guy in Australia we had dinner in Sydney that we had dinner?

Ryan: Which one?

Howard: The orthodontist. 

Ryan: Oh that was Derek Mahoney.

Howard: Oh my God Derek Mahoney, fifteen years ago he was in Sydney and all the Orthodontists are screaming and crying because these dentists are starting to do Invisalign and their cases are going down about 20% because the general dentist are not doing the class two's, the class threes. They're doing nothing difficult. They're doing all the easy Invisalign, so Derek, the only guy thinking in abundance in all of Sydney, opens up his dental office, says, "Hey, are you doing Invisalign in your practice. Well, I'm a board certified Orthodontist and you're not, so I'm going to set up a study club every night at 5:00 after work bring your cases in. I want to make sure you're doing them fine. I want to go after your tracings, blah, blah, blah, blah." Before he knew it, he had four associates in his office. It went from his office to four because you're teaching me Invisalign so then I'm giving you all my other stuff that I don't want to do. 

Now he has an office north, south, east, west in Sydney. Each one has four offices. I think he does $50,000,000 a year because he thinks in abundance. He doesn't think in fear and scarcity, and I've seen that work by an Orthodontist in probably every one of the largest cities in the United States. So then when you go to B to B instead of B to C business to consumer, but business to business, businesses are successful. You can't be successful in business thinking in fear. Let me give you an example, l have Today's Dental, so I work on patients, 80% of them live in fear. When I'm at Dentaltown and you're working with dentists half of them live in fear, but when I'm talking to dental manufacturing companies like up the street from you, Dan Fisher in South Jordan, Utah, that guy thinks in more abundance than anybody I know. 

That's why he has a thousand employees. So I would start building your Dream Team when you open up your practice. So the question was, how many dentists would think that was weird? Well, all the ones that think in fear would think it’s weird, and then I want to go to another data point, which is student loan debt. When you look at student loan debt, almost all the defaults are people who owe less than $20,000 a year. By the time you owe over $100,000 a year, you're totally committed, so the people that are defaulting, they weren't really committed to school anyway. By the time you're a hundred, two hundred, three hundred thousand [inaudible 00:32:05] you know what you want to do. So back to coming out of school when dad paid for your college, you're single, you're not hungry. They don't take any risks a molar endo comes in, "Oh, I don't know if I should do that. I'll refer to the Endodontist. Oh, that wisdom tooth, that looks tough. It's got a curve on the route. I'll send it to the oral surgeon. Oh, that kid was crying. That's what pediatric dentists are for." Then you show me another kid like you married to Caitlin, two kids, student loans, bought a practice. By the time you get out of school, hell the practice alone could cost seven fifty easily. That'd be the average price. So easily a year or two from now you're a million in debt. Guess what? A million dollar in debt, you'll walk around and shake the flesh. A million dollars of debt, he'll try that molar root canal. A million dollars in debt, hell yeah. I'm going to pull out that wisdom tooth. Might take an hour and a half, but I'm going to do it.  

So when you're incentivized, my dad used to always tell me, if you see four hungry coyotes walking down a dirt road, something's going to die. And when I see a dentist, young married with kids, a million dollars in debt, they're going to crush it, crush it. You're going to crush it because you're incentivized to crush it and you live in the wealthiest country in the world, so you'll crush it. You're hungry enough to figure out that's why you got a Mastermind Group on Facebook with seventy-five hundred people. I bet those aren't the seventy-five hundred kids who are single with no student loan money. I bet those are the seventy-five hundred students in America who were laying in bed at night thinking this idea of mine better work because I'm digging myself a big hole. This is really got to work. So since it's got your attention, it's going to work. 

Dallin: Great points. Just writing a few things down. I think it's so critical like you're saying I mean everyone's going to be a little bit scared. Everyone has a little bit of fear when they're trying new things and they have big things, but the key is to act on that fear and not let that fear paralyze you into like you're saying, referring out everything and being scared. And you have to be able to take that fear and act and I think that's a huge key, and like you're saying, you're kind of talking about people who have to because you have a family you're supporting and stuff like that. I hadn't even thought about it like that, but it's true. And that would be kind of what I hope all dental students, people who maybe have had been very blessed in life. Maybe that have been given lots of stuff in life. And that's part of the goal of the Facebook Group like you mentioned, is that you just take that fear and you act. Yes, this is the situation.

Howard: Now how do they find that group? Is it open group or is it invitation only? What do they do, they go to Facebook and ...?

Dallin: So you can request to it. Yeah, you go to Facebook, you just search in the search bar on Facebook.

Howard: And what do you type in? 

Dallin: Making money after dental school, Mastermind.

Howard: Type in making money after dental school.

Dallin: Uhmm, and it should be the main one.

Howard: Did you find it? No, on Facebook, making money after dental school, that's it or did you say Mastermind?

Dallin: Mastermind at the end.

Howard: Making money after dental school, Mastermind. So back to the fear and the abundance. See, it's not fearful to take my debit card and buy an airline ticket and fly across the country to go learn Invisalign. You know what's scary is to walk to that Orthodontist's office across the street and show that I'm young and vulnerable and ask him for help and will you take me on, knowing that half of them live in fear and there's nothing wrong with them. They're just homosapien, wild animals living in fear. It just is what it is. But it's a 50% chance that Periodontist says, "Hey, you want to learn to implants? I'll tell you what, you tell me what afternoons you have off and you call my friend as you talked to Valerie and see if I got any surgeries going on. If you want to come over here and sit on a stool." The best Endodontist in Phoenix, Arizona, Brad Gettleman. He had an open chair policy he said as long as you don't knock down my assistant or me, you can sit behind, stand behind me. It was so cool and he was so good it was like watching Beethoven play the piano and he just loved it. He loved teaching, he loved doing, he loved sharing and that's what a lot of is about. 

I do believe that if you crawl into the psyche of every little kid somewhere in grammar school for at least one day, every kid thought they wanted to be a teacher. Maybe it was only a day.

Dallin: Makes people feel good. 

Howard: Yeah, people like to teach, they like to share, it makes them feel good. So find a dream team because I'll tell you what, when you fly to Pittsburgh to learn how to place implants and then you have one fail and they call your local board. Well, the guy in Pittsburgh isn't going to do crap, but the Periodontist in your town, he knows the board. He might even be sitting on the board. He might even be in the dental society. They can defuse it. When something's going wrong, you should say, "Well, you know what, you need to go see a specialist." And then they're going to your friend. But it's fearful to go ask and show someone you're vulnerable and say, "Hey, I'm young, I'm broke. Will you teach me? Can I watch you, can I observe?" And the smart Periodontist knows this, okay what is the easy implants to place? First molars, the maxillary, second bite cusps, right? Well, you're not yet doing the anterior's. You're not going to do any All on 4's. You're not going to be any sinus lifts. You're not going to do any of that crap. So by the time you've placed your first ten implants, you've given him a hundred. It's just so easy and then with Ortho, I've tried to tell this to Orthodontists a million times, but they never listen, the average dentist only stays interested in Ortho for about two years because they'd rather do a $6,500 case on Friday afternoon. They don't want to get $6,500 and see you every month for the next two years. 

Their walnut brain doesn't work like that and in an Orthodontist office, they're flipping chairs every fifteen minutes and in a dental office the shortest appointment is like thirty minutes, so they lose interest. But what's most important that you first establish a relationship. That you guys fist bump every time you see each other. That when you walk into a study club you're like, "Dallin, what up?"  That's how you get the referring business and they think, "Well no, I'm going to get the referring business by sending them a platter of cookies every quarter." Well, it's a platter of cookies, that doesn't make me secrete dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin-like a relationship does. You need to be in their cell phone. I tell specialists if that dentist, if that Dallin Gomez moves to your town and if he's not on your cell phone and you know you're different. You know some dentists like these types of jokes sent to them and other dentists ... I have dentist friends on my cell phone that if I sent a Trump joke, they might slash my tires. 

I got other dentists where if I send them, they'd laugh their head off. You know, your homies. And so these specialists they got to get the referring doctors numbers in their iPhone. They need to be texting them four jokes and memes for every series something real. That's why another thing I'll show the young kids that the guys learning implants the ones that live in fear they order all their implants online. And the ones who order from a real human in the flesh what they don't realize is that they're coming in your office you're saying, "I know I'm paying a little more, I'm going to buy the Straumann, the Nova Biocare, the Megagen because that Megagen rep is going to sit there and say, "Well, Dawn have you ever done a sinus lift before? And you're going to say, "Well, this is my first one." "Well, you know what Thursday night we're going to beach bar and we're going to have cheeseburgers and watch the Cleveland Cavaliers lose four games in a row and there's going to be three guys there that have all done a hundred sinus lifts and you need to come eat a cheeseburger with us because you need to know those three guys." So once again, it's living in the physical. Same thing with the lab you sit there and say, "Oh I'll save money sending it all the way across the country to Glidewell." Well, you know what's brave? When I got after school, there was a guy named Wolfgang and think of Germans, they make Porsche's, Mercedes, Volvo. Americans make Chevy, Chrysler, Ford. Do I need to say more? Their lab techs go to school as long as our dentists go to school. 

There was a German here and his name was Wolfgang. I forgot his last name. He was like sixty years old, this heavy German accent and everybody said, "Well, he's a tough old guy. He'll be hard on you." And I thought awesome. So I said, I'm only using the local guy, I'm not going to do mail order and so I sent the first week or month or whatever to Wolfgang and then I had some opening and it was Friday and I called him up and I got him on the phone and I said, "Hey, was Yuan Casey good?" And he goes, "What?" I said, "I went to the University of Missouri, Kansas City, am I doing good? Do you like what you see?" And there's just this long pause I thought the line went dead and he goes, "We need to talk." And I said, "Okay." 

So I went down there and it was amazing because since I wasn't afraid of him and I thought in hope and growth, he took me under ... he was probably sixty, I was probably twenty-five and he showed me a hundred pans of incoming cases. Showed me how I could do everything better and then I was buying my supplies from a rep and he knew my rep, so he called his rep and said, "Tell me your accounts." And then he got to this guy, oh I forgot his name. Now his son's practicing with him. It was Roger Briggs and he said, "Oh my God, really, you know Roger's. Howie needs to meet Roger." They were taking me to people that were so much better and smarter and higher quality and it was a team approach from Periodontist, a lab man, an Orthodontist, an oral surgeon, your supply guy, your implant rep, it was a team approach. But what was neat about the team approach, they were all homies in my backyard. I didn't have to fly on an airplane to go meet anybody and anytime I had a problem and I had some big problems, I was really dumb.  

I remember one of my first ten implants was on a gorgeous girl who had number eight, knocked out by a softball. Well, I didn't understand that she would want the gums to look like God made it. She wanted it to look like a detective couldn't figure out it was an implant crown and after I redid it three times, I finally thought this girl is really upset. I called the [periodontist? 00:43:12]and he was already a drinking buddy, beer eating cheeseburger, Phoenix Suns fan, and he redid the whole thing and he didn't even charge her. He didn't charge me or her. I mean, that's what you need. You need relationships. So this whole rant started on, are they brave enough to go door to door and press the flesh? They better be because if you're too afraid to ring on a doorbell on a B to C customer, "Hey, I'm Dallin Gomez. I just opened up my dental office. I hope you come in and meet us." 

Then how are you going to be able to go do that to an oral surgeon, an Orthodontist? Lab men I know, hell I've podcasted fifty lab owners, they're all afraid of the dentist because they're so afraid to call Dallin and say, "Dallin you're, not doing it right. You're not prepping her right. You're not doing it  ..." because they don't want to lose the $5,000 a month annuity. Average person keeps his lab ten years, average lab bills five thousand. Five times twelve, that's sixty, ten years, that's six hundred thousand. I don't want to piss off Dallin for $600,000. So when you send it back and say it didn't fit, I don't want to sit there and say," Oh, of course, it didn't fit Dallin. It looked like Stevie Wonder prepped it. You didn't have any clearance. You didn't do the prep right?" They don't want to do that, so you have to go out of your way and say, "Hey, I know 50% of dentist live in fear and blame everything on anybody but the man in the mirror." I know 50% look in the mirror and say, "If I gave every dentist in America a gun and say, shoot the person that causes all the problems in your life." They'd all have to shoot themselves in the head. It just be mass suicide. 

You got to look in the mirror and say, "That is the reason I'm doing well or doing bad." And you need to call your lab man and say, "Hey, I want you to know I want to be a better dentist. My patients deserve better dentistry. Don't be afraid of me, talk to me. You see a hundred people's work. I only see mine. If you know a better dentist around here, I want to know his name. I want to know what burs he uses. I want to go sit there and watch him." And once they sit there and think, "Oh, that's cool. Dallin's a cool guy." Now you notice your Patterson rep is referring you patients, friends, and family, so is your lab people. You're doing dental work on the lab tremor because you're like the only guy that their lab does businessmen that isn't an asshole who lives in fear and everybody walks on eggshells whenever he calls. You know what I mean?

Dallin: Well done.

Howard: They're too afraid to call you up and say, "Hey, Dallin, when you send in a quadrant tray, impregum impression could you pull out the bloody cotton roll. Do we have a health history? Did she have Hepatitis, Aids, Herpes, HPV? Did you go to dental school? Can you please pull out at least the gaping bloody shit before you send it to us? They just live in fear. So once you establish that you're humble and that's always been my goal, to be the humblest son of a bitch in the valley. And once you tell them I'm short, fat, bald, I'm born in a barn from Kansas, I want to be better. Help me. Let's be buddies. You can't insult me, you're just on a road to abundance. And if you're on a road to abundance and the richest country in the world ... and here's the last thing I want to say. There's three hundred and twenty-three million Americans and 3.5% percent of them are millionaires.


So think about this, three hundred and twenty-three million people times point O three five, so you're telling me eleven million people can become a millionaire in the United States, but you can't. Really, really eleven, when I'm looking at the guy from Cleveland Cavaliers. What's his name? Lebron James. Now I know I can't be Lebron James and how many guys in the NBA total are there, like four hundred? And how many of them are his level, maybe four or five? That's not achievable. But Dude, when eleven million Americans did anything, you can do it. What can eleven million people do that Dallin can't do, nothing?

Dallin: Nothing, yeah.

Howard: Nothing, it's just do you want it? Do you want it and are you humble enough and think in abundance enough to go get it? 

Dallin: I love it. I love those points there. I think like back to the abundance mentality. I don't know why it's such a trap for people to ... I mean myself included in my life, you think in scarcity terms. You think that if someone else gets something if you refer a case out to someone you think in terms of the immediate loss, "the loss," but I love that. I love that whole point of there's a lot more to think about, a lot longer, more into the future things that you need to think about in terms of developing relationships, being humble, improving. Like back to the relationship thing, just real relationships. I love all of that stuff that you're talking about. It just is hitting everything right on the head and I completely agree that ...

Howard: Well, you probably saw it in dental school there's other dental students who would help you do anything to help you on the test. And then there's other ones who like, "Well, I want to graduate in the top ten of my class because I want to go to Grad school. So deep down inside I hope you fail." It's like, "Wow, really, that's your life mission. That's how your noodle operates." And I never would get mad at that person because I always feel sorry what it be like to be that person. I say don't be mad.

Dallin: And the people who end up being the most successful are the people who are the most generous. That's just how it works. 

Howard: Yeah, if you want it push it out and you'll get it back. So if you want more abundance, push out abundancy and if you want more fear push out more fear.

Dallin: I really love that.

Howard: So now De Novo obviously is more risk. You got to have good demographics. If your demographics are fine, you're going to be fine. I can tell you some short rule of thumbs that I've seen. So the number one, the number one in every category is always a low-cost provider, so the number one person in the airlines is Southwest Airlines at 27%.  Number one distributor of groceries is Kroger, there's Walmart, it's Ikea. Dentists always want to sell a Mercedes Benz, but if I go to any town in Utah for every Mercedes Benz they sell, they sold a hundred F-150 pickup trucks. So an F-150 pickup drive, which is about, what does an F-150 cost in Utah, thirty-eight grand?


Dallin: Yeah, something like that. 

Howard: About thirty-eight grand, forty, so nobody wants to make an F-150. They all want to go to all these elite schools and make Mercedes and Ferrari and that's great there's a market for Ferrari's and Mercedes and all those fancy cars. It's just a very damn small market. I would rather be McDonald's than the fanciest steakhouse in Salt Lake City. I'd rather be Ikea than the most, I imagine, who's the famous movie star by Provo, owns a ski resort. He made all those movies? 

Dallin: Paul Newman is his friend. It's Robert Redford. 

Howard: Robert Redford, my mom's running joke all the way till my dad died they'd say, "Well, what's the secret of being married at thirty years or forty years or fifty years?" She'd always say, "Well, it's because Robert Redford never called me." But I imagine he's got some all natural handmade furniture at his Sundance Ski Resort that's a $1000 dollars a chair and that's all great. But I'd rather own Ikea selling a $10 chair because that's where all the money is and ... go ahead.

Dallin: I was just going to say on that point, I love what you're saying. I've gotten into a bunch of heated arguments actually with some of the doctors at my school and other doctors, just about so many of them have the mentality that you need to stand behind your work. You need to charge what you deserve. You need to have this mentality that low prices is bad, bad, bad. And my ideal practice that I'm going to build is going to have a lot low-cost dentistry for my patients. That's what I want. I want to be able to make dentistry more affordable to people and I'm so amazed at how many dentists push back because they feel like you're causing this problem, you're part of this increase in corporate dentistry and you're part of this whole thing. Well, I want to have low-cost dentistry for my patients, but I also think it's a better business model. Like you're saying if you look at all the leading companies, exactly what you were just saying, they all have operated on low cost. That's the way the successful companies go, except for Lamborghini, Ferrari, and everything. But Toyota Camrys and Corollas work fine for most of the population. I really like what you were saying because so many dentists automatically tie in low cost with low quality or ... 

Howard: And let's tally that up like low cost, the lowest cost airlines, Southwest Airlines, up until just this last month, they never had a death. And a very high-cost airline which was US Air which got bought by America West, which got bought by America, US Air lost an airplane every year, eight years in a row. And they were the high-cost provider, and what was the problem? A little piece fell off an engine went through the window and sucked some lady's head out. And I used to always fly Southwest and I used to sleep against the window. But now I make Ryan sit by the window and then I move to the aisle. But it's a one hand deal, your business better be faster, easier, higher in quality, lower in cost and get smaller and miniature each year. This iPhone, what people don't realize is that more law every eighteen months they fit twice as many computer chips on the processor.

 So I am holding in my hand an IBM mainframe computer from 1980, but more is law every basically eighteen months, twenty-four months, they got twice as many, what are they called? Twice as many things on the same size chip and so you if you're going to teach me how to do a root canal, my first question, is this root canal faster? Is your technique easier? Is it higher in quality? Is it lowering cost? And is it more miniature? And you better get at least three of those right and if you're going to be on Shark Tank, you're going to have to get all five of them right. And if you sit there and say, "Well, most people do a root canal and a molar endo, but I think they're idiots. But my technique's going to take two hours." "Okay, bye." "Well, this one only 5% of the people could figure out how this technique works." Oh and that's most Orthodontic courses. Then you go to someone like Brock Rondo, he could teach people with head injuries how to do orthodontics. I mean just practice limited to people that head-on collisions, skiing accidents, if you really master your subject, you can make it easier. Hiring quality, that's a no-brainer. Hell, when the first DVD player came out it was $800 and it was horrible. By the time they get to $200, they were awesome. Now they're perfect and they're what, forty bucks. 

 And then lower costs, here's what dentists do. Every time the earth goes around the sun one time and passes Uranus, they want to raise their fees 5% and they stagnate. Like I'll say to dentists, what do you love doing the most?  And they'll say, "Oh I got a CEREC machine. I love doing CEREC crowns." "Okay, so then how much you charge for a CEREC?" And they say, "A thousand bucks." And I say, "And do you want to do more or less?" They say, “More." I said, "Okay, well if you want to do more, move the price from a thousand to eight hundred." Have you heard of price elasticity? Here's price, here's volume you sell hardly any Cadillacs, lower the price you sell more Buick's, lower the price you sell more [inaudible 00:56:04], lower the price you sell more Chevy's. And they always talk about these car markets where they'll sell $80 million cars here. They don't realize that only 30% of the auto trade every year is new cars, 70% of it's used cars. Same thing with housing they always say, "Oh America last year sold three million homes." Those are new homes. How many existing homes were sold? That's the real money. 

So I say, well, if you charge a thousand dollars for a crown and you want to do more than lower the price to eight hundred. "No, I love crowns, I want to raise the price to twelve hundred". "Oh, so you hate crowns?" "No, I love crowns." Well, if you love something, lower the price, make it more affordable, accessible, price [inaudible 00:56:44] elasticity you'll sell more. So whatever they love, they raise the price and do less and then here's what's the dumbest thing in dentistry. Half of America don't have dental insurance. 

You go into most of these dental offices and 85% of the crowns he did was on a PPO price and the PPO price for the crown was like six fifty. And you say, "Well do you want to do more PPO's or more cash." "Oh, I want more cash because then I don't have to deal with insurance." Okay, so I'm going to go around the corner and I call your office. "Yeah, I don't have any insurance, how much is a crown?" You say a thousand dollars. I say, "Well that's weird, 80% of your patients only have to pay six-fifty for a crown because they have dental insurance." And you say you want less of them yet they're only six fifty and you want more of not have to deal with the insurance, but you put a $350 penalty, a 50%. That'd be like what if the United States pass a law that said there was an import tax of 50% on all things imported. Would that help imports or would that hurt imports? 

Dallin: It would hurt just [inaudible 00:57:48]

Howard: Yeah, and then you go into a dental office and tell them the same damn thing and it's because they've never studied business and I'm so proud of you that on your journey you started the Facebook, Making Money after Dental School Mastermind Group, because dentists don't need to learn anything else about Algebra and Trig and Geometry and the periodic table and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I guarantee you I've been out thirty years and I'm still mad about the one thousand hours I spent in the library at Creighton trying to get A's in Geometry, Trig and Calculus and all this Physics and all this stuff like that. I mean really, really. And then you graduate from school, you open up your own office, first Friday your staff comes, "Hey Dallin will you jump on Quickbooks and make us payroll?" "Shit, I don't know how. They didn't even cover that." Eight years of college, I don't know how to make payroll. Your accountant calls you up, "Hey, do you want a statement, a cash flow, a balance sheet or a P&L?" "No, I don't even know what you just said." It's like really? And so I'm so proud of you that you're thinking in hope and growth and abundance and helping your homies and utilizing this new handheld IBM mainframe computer and that you got seventy-five hundred members and you haven't even got out of dental school yet. You are too cool for school.


Dallin: Thank you. I appreciate that. And I wanted to real quick, one last thing, when you were talking about the lowering prices, that's how you're going to get more patients and you're going to make more. One important thing that a lot of people don't realize, which is exactly the kind of stuff that we talk about in the group, so I encourage everyone to join it, is people have the mentality that they can't handle that much. They can't handle that much more. They don't want to start earning like a mill and the whole purpose of learning business is to learn how to build a business that's more efficient, that can see more people, but that won't make it feel like you're killing yourself every day. It's just a matter of establishing systems, processes, learning how to cut costs. Learning how to be quicker, learning all these different things that piece together so that you can do exactly what you're saying. And that's the part that I think a lot of people, they just kind of shut it automatically out and they think, I don't want to see more patients. I like the amount of patients I have. Well, I mean I'm, I guess you like your $100,000 paycheck or when you could be doing the exact same amount of work and you could be making four or $500,000.

Howard: Talk about religion, treat other people like you want to be treated. Would you rather sit in the chair for two hours for a molar root canal or forty-five minutes? 

Dallin: Forty-five. 

Howard: Yeah, and the Endodontist will do it in under an hour. Pulling out four wisdom teeth, my oral surgeon friends and myself pull them all out in ten minutes. Would you like to sit in there for the chair for an hour and a half to pull out one molar? You're doing your filling with a dol bur. I use single-use burs one time, throw them away. And when you look at buildup material, some of it sets up fast set, sets up in one minute. Some of it slow sets, sets up two minutes. Well, the two-minute setup costs twice as much as the one-minute setup and you haven't even showed me the price of each setup material. I can only tell you that it's people, time and money. And number two, it's business models, for instance, in the 1950's there were no hygienist and when people are going around talking about let's open up hygiene schools, just like dental therapists today, the sky was falling and closed down the hygiene schools and all the redneck Hillbilly dentist were all fighting the hygienist. 

Now when they come out, do you think any dentist wants to go do all their own cleanings or do they think they want the hygienist to do it. So now we have the same thing fifty years later they're called dental therapists. Now the government thinks that they graduate all these dental therapists are going to go to all these poor underserved areas and do free dentistry on Eskimos or whatever and it's not. I've already met a dozen dentists that got dental therapists. So now their first two rooms are hygienist because they don't want to do all their cleanings. That's volume that they're not doing it. Then they're next two rooms, rooms three and four are two dental therapists who go up there and numb, drill, do the filling. They're paying her $40 an hour and insurance was paying him $125 an hour so yeah, that's volume. But the dentist is sitting back in his office eating a donut and then he's only going to go in there and then in room five and six he's got something big like maybe a molar Endo and the dental therapist goes and numbs up the patient. Then the expanded duty assistant puts on all the rubber dam and everything and then he goes in there and does the root canal. 

And I'll just end on this story because we went way over an hour, but like on a root canal, you'll stand there behind a desk with a root. He'll take a slow speed and he's trying to put it in the 43rd [NiTi? 01:02:43] file and he's jigging around with it and he's going down and down and down. And then he's done, he tries to unhook it and takes it out because of scarcity. He only has one slow speed, but the Endodontist, he has four of them set up so he picks up the forty, bang, puts it back. Then he picks up the next one, the thirty-five bang, puts it back. Puts up the next one, thirty, bang, puts it back, twenty-five the APEC. 

They don't think well, the scarcity is the slow speed handpiece and if you look in the Bible it says you should only have one. And then what's even crazier about volume? You know that sound blower thing that they have at sporting events I used to have one of those and I used to tell my patients, cover your ears, because my rule was by the time you pay the doctor, 35%, the staff 25%, the lab 10%, the supply 6%, the building 5%, why are you leaving the room? "Oh, well we need another drill and we only have three and it's in the autoclave." Are you out of your mind drills are my costs. So whenever she leaves the room, I tell the patients to cover their ears, I lean my chair back and do that sound horn. Everybody in the office have crapped their pants, the office management running.


I said, why? How would you like to be in the middle of a cancer surgery and the oncologist surgeon had to leave the room because he had to go find an autoclave because they only had one? So when people understand their cost that you're not saving money buying something that sets up in two minutes versus one, you're not saving costs. Look at Southwest Airlines. Every plane is the same, so I'll go into a dental office room one it's a hygiene room. Patients are all there, has one little occlusal, a hundred and twenty bucks. "Hey, can we do that here?" "Well, we have to move him because this room has everything in there, but the one or two things needed to do a filling." So now we're going to have to move the patient, but we don't have another room. Are we going to set up another room, but the other ones here, and we're already running late, so let's just reschedule. All because you didn't have a damn slow speed and a high speed. 

So every Southwest Airlines plane is exactly the same. If I go into room one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, I don't care what you need. It's all there. We're ready to go. And then the hygienist says, "Well, I can't assist during a filling." Well then how come my assistant can and she didn't go to four years of hygiene school. So that's just a bad attitude thinking in fear and so if you just look at everything in abundance and think number one, the patient doesn't want to sit there for an hour. The patient don't want to sit there for two hours. If I asked every patient in America, you go to this doctor, you'll do the dental procedure in five minutes, you go to this one, he'll do it in half an hour. The guy who does it in five minutes will win. 

But hey, we went way over, Dallin, I'm so proud of you. Thanks for starting the Facebook group. Send Dallin an email and cc Sam. Sam's the editor of Dentaltown. So Dentaltown we put out a monthly magazine every year that goes to all the general dentists a hundred and twenty-five thousand, and then we make the Orthotown magazine which goes to all eleven thousand Orthodontists every year, but once a year we have the dental student, the new grad edition, and we send it to all the dental students and it's a yearly deal. I'd love for you to write an article in next years new grad edition. 

Dallin: I'd love to.

Howard: Tell them about your Mastermind Group. Tell them about your journey. I think you're a hell of a guy and I want to tell you, thank you so much for coming on the show and I hope everybody is listening to this on iTunes and not watching this on YouTube because your hair is so damn rocking hot good, you're making me look extra, extra bald.

Dallin: Not as good as your hair, hey. And also I'd like to invite you to do a Webinar to my seventy-five hundred group members. You can do it from the comfort of your own home, just like you do an interview here and a lot of times I'll have the members submit questions. You can hit on those or whatever topics you want. I think that will be tremendously valuable.

Howard: Well, the truth is I'm too old and stupid to do that, but I know Ryan can figure it out, so you and Ryan 24/7 anytime, any day. Whenever you want to do it, buddy. I'm all there. 

Dallin: Hey, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. It's been awesome.


Howard: And you tell those two kids that they're going to hopefully grow up and be a dentist just like their daddy. 

Dallin: That's right. 

Howard: Alright, have a rocking hot day.

Dallin: Okay, thanks, Howard.

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